Starting secondary school a year early.

[Mumski45]

I was wondering if anyone on here has made the decision to send their DC to secondary school a year early and if so what were your reasons. I am considering this for DS2 but have lots of questions such as

• what are the benefits

• what are the downsides
• how do I go about it

- do i need the support of the primary school or just the secondary school - should he miss year 5 or year 6 (currently in year 4) - will he have to take the SATS a year early or can he miss them out Am also interested to hear from anyone who considered this but made the decision not to in the end. Thanks in advance to those who take time to give me your thoughts.

Very different but my child has been taught in mixed year groups so at the moment a majority of his class is the year above him. Socially this is hard - academically fine (he is an August child so there are kids 2 years older than him). There has been bullying. I think it would be hard mixing with children 2 years ahead of you during puberty as being like your peers is very important at that stage. If your kid has a September birthday the difference wouldn't be so bad but I can't really think of any positives, only negatives as I am not convinced being a year ahead really will stretch a child more except possibly in maths for which you could get a tutor.

Good point smiling. That reminds me that my sons have a boy who is a year older in their class (he came from abroad and needed the extra year) and a boy from mainland China who was in their class stayed down a year after GCSE to catch up a bit more as he needed time to cope with the language issues. Actually those two boys have fitted in fine actually but those are mature sensible groups of boys not younger ones who can be sillier.

Teacher here:
Year 4 seems very early to make this decision and know how bright your child really is.
I would only ever consider this if a child were super super super bright tbh. I teach a boy who was moved up (in about year 6, I think) and he copes fine (now year 10) and will do very well. He is delightful. teachers love him, although he is classiclally eccentric in a lot of ways. he mixes well. But at the beginning of year 9, he was immature (in a nice way) and that did make other children sneer at him a little/ find him irritating. I work in quite a nurturing school and I was his HOY, so an eye was kept on him. His parents are quite hands off, which helps.
I would think twice about this for a boy, November birthday or not. Boys mature at a slower speed than girls and in about year 8 or 9 he is going to be behind most boys physically and nearly all the girls emotionally, socially and possibly many intellectually. This will be a challenge. The subject , of the main ones, most likely to be hit by this is English, where maturity of voice matters a huge deal. Even many July and August boys suffer a little in English.

Meant to say he has done all the stuff like maths GCSE early , and is now excelling at maths A level. But he isn't getting a normal experience : he sits lessons with year 12s . However, he is happy and thriving. One of the main motivations here was our three tier system. He wouldn't have been able to dot hat form a middle school. In a two tier system, a good secondary school will accommodate a mixed economy timetable.

Just reading your OP again. Yes, he can miss the SATs out : that's not a problem. Some schools sulk about losing data but that isn't your problem and they'll find other ways!
Technically, outside of normal date parameters, he won't count in a school's data anyway, but that is often overlooked.
I would say it is the school he is currently in who need to support you - the secondary school take what they are given. In my case, though, the maths depts. of both schools liaised very closely for a year or so before the boy moved up.
Are the schools involved LA schools or academies? Either way, funding for the child is a bit of an issue - but easily enough overcome. Dig down into any typical secondary age year group and you'll often find several kids who are a year older or younger. We had five in my last year group.

I would not do it. My DD is also beyond top-of-the-class-bright, sat some previous years' GCSE Maths papers for practise at primary school and got A - it was suggested for her, however, she did not want to be moved up and it was a fab decision -

she is now doing GCSE year at secondary school and her life is good - she does so many other activities because she does not have to cram like crazy for her exams - which to be fair are a miniscule part of her overall life - she is an air cadet, enjoying flying/shooting/camp weeks, she takes part in council run art/graffiti projects, she runs a math challenge club at school and does various cosplay activities at weekends going to comic-con type events.

Her life is sooooo much broader and richer as a result of being over-clever for her year. Yes there is a bit of coasting - in that her peers are studying like crazy right now and she is not (she is stretched at secondary school because learning has no boundaries and since she is self motivated, she will go for it herself), but it enables so much more else to happen in her life. If she was a year ahead and not so far ahead academically, then some of those balls would have to be dropped.

I don't think anecdotes are going to help you much. Some will tell you that it was the best thing they ever did; some will say it was a disaster. All this tells you is that the decision is a difficult one to make and in hindsight people might have made a different decision.

What you actually need is advice in real life, from people who know your DC. If school/teachers do not believe he should be skipped, then don't do it.

I was skipped and I have DC who are skipped. In each case schools, teachers and educational psychologists were supportive and in each case it was the best move to make. I should say that in all our cases we were not just a bit ahead, but extremely strong academically - at the very top end nationally of the year groups into which we were moved - and we were also emotionally mature, so fitted better with older children. For none of us was there ever the issue that we were too young socially for anything.

I would say it is the school he is currently in who need to support you - the secondary school take what they are given.

BTW this is certainly not true in my area: it is the secondary school that have to agree to take the child early, and they won't do so without strong support from the primary school (and usually a supportive ed psych report is needed too).

Really user ? gosh.

We might have that for out of catchment or SEN but if in catchment we take all comers. Technically, yes, though : the DS is not automatically entitled to a place.

Not sure what school in its right mind would turn down an academic high achiever...

Hi Thank you all for your input. It has been very helpful although as you say it is a tricky decision to make.

I have tried to get the school to challenge him more but they seem to be stuck within the new curriculum and reluctant to veer away from this in any way. He is set harder questions when they cover a topic but there is no way they will teach different topics when it is obvious he is secure in the one they are doing. We have parents evening next week so I will have another chat about what might be possible but don't hold out much hope.
I understand from DS1's tutor that the school will take them a year early if they pass the 11+ and she did not think any ed psych report would be needed. The school is an Academy but not sure if that makes any difference. I am not sure whether the primary school will support this or not as I am at the early stages of thinking about the possibility of doing this and I haven't discussed it with them yet.

I don't think year 4 is too soon to be thinking about this as if he is to apply to start year 7 in 2018 (one year early) then he will need to take the 11+ in September of this year, i.e. early in year 5. However you are right in that I don't know how bright he really is. All I know is that DS1 is bright and has been accepted for the grammar school despite being out of area (i.e. had to do more than just pass the 11+). DS2 is very obviously on a different level and can do most of what DS1 can do even now. The only thing that seems to be holding him back is the speed at which the school cover the basic curriculum and my view is that any gaps he has in basic knowledge (i.e. knowing certain maths formulas and techniques) could easily be filled as he picks things up very quickly. He has a specific interest in science and is an avid reader, he recently researched (in his own way) Einstein and the theory of relativity, now I'm not saying he is a genius and understood everything he read but he seemed very comfortable with the concepts of gravity and time not being as fixed as we understand them to be and prepared a powerpoint to present to his class (this want homework just something he decided to do). He watched the film "interstellar" which has a complex plot involving black holes and the relationship between gravity and time and found it quite easy to articulate how the fictional concepts "could" be possible. He is also a fan of Stephen Hawking having watched "The theory of everything" and told me once he would like to meet him for a chat!!

He is very aware of what is going on around him and seems to instinctively understand a lot of what he reads/hears and when he goes to his friends houses their parents are astounded at his ability to hold a complex and mature conversation. His vocab is wide as a result of his reading and he is able to repeat complex words and phrases he reads in his conversation in the appropriate context.

It may be that my best course of action is to do nothing and just encourage this out of school interest in Science but I don't want to get to the point where someone (or he himself ) says to me "if you knew he was so clever why didn't you give him other opportunities"

Another worry is actually the impact on DS1's confidence. However whilst they have their moments (they are brothers after all) they do seem to have a fab relationship with each other and are good at encouraging and congratulating each other. I would be interested to hear from those who have been accelerated in the past whether they felt any sibling relationships were affected.

If DS2 went up a year, would that put DS1and DS2 in consecutive school years? If so, I'd say that's another reason not to as I don't think it's ideal ( I'm in that situation and considering different high schools as a result) . Not great for the older one to have the younger one snapping at their heels.

Also, given that he'll be moving from non-selective to selective, the jump may be enough anyway. Or, if you think he really knocks it out of the park academically, are there any super selective independents you could apply for , requesting a scholarship?

He sounds lovely! He sounds a LOT like the boy I mentioned upthread? can he do a Rubik's cube really quickly? The boy I teach is learning to do it blindfolded. That kind of level of intelligence suggest very very gifted...and, therefore, adjustments should be made.

It does make a difference if they are an academy , depending on whether the LA handle their admissions or not. They can also set their own admissions policies.

I am not a fan of grammar schools - nonetheless, in my naivete, I might assume a grammar school system meant there might be less reason to move someone up a year, given the intake being brighter than average anyway?

And , as a shout out to the state sector - any decent state school should be able to manage your child's needs ... and might find him more intriguing and more precious and nurture him more? Again, rose tinted here!!

Can you get him CATs tested? That would test raw ability and would give you leverage if his scores came out at 135 ish +.

You would also then yourself know how bright he really is....

Does your LA run G and T summer schools?

I had my dd assessed in the summer after yr5, prior to taking the 11+, to see if it was feasible to apply for the grammar.
She wasn't assessed by way of the tests but by general English and maths questions.
Could you go down this route?

Thanks for the tips Ilikebeanswithketchup. I will look up CAT tests.
He has not done a rubiks cube yet as we don't have one. I really don't think he is quite in that league as to be able to do it blindfolded although I am sure he is capable of learning how to do it. He is very quick at the rubiks race game though.
You are right in that I would hope when he gets to the grammar school he will thrive, however what I would like to avoid is coasting for the next 2 years and particularly in year 6.
As far as I know there is no G and T summer school although I will look this up. G and T does not seem to be catered for at all in our area.

The Grammar school we are applying to does have a scheme which takes some
top set KS2 primary school children into the Grammar school once a week for challenging activities. However because we are out of catchment he can't access this. Its a shame as it would have been ideal for him and would make me feel less inclined to consider skipping a year.

Keysersophie. Yes that is exactly what I mean in that they will be in consecutive years if DS2 skips year 6. Im not sure how a super selective differs from a selective but we only have a choice of one Grammar school here and we are out of catchment for that one.

Super selective is where the pass mark is higher than the usual pass mark. IE if the usual 11+ pass is, say 320 and above then super selective may choose to take only 365 and above. Anyway, aside from everything else discussed already, if he's in Yr4 now and he needs to be sitting the 11+ in September this year, presumably the cut off for applications will be June/July this year. It may be already too late to convince your LA to let him sit it early, these kinds of issues (like staying back a year before starting primary for instance) usually take a loooong time for LAs to process through.

Isitjustmeorisiteveryoneelse thanks for the explanation. The Grammar school we are looking at does both.ie within catchment the children have to pass the 11+ and then for those who apply from outside catchment the remaining places are offered in order of the score achieved, i.e. from outside catchment it is possible to pass but not get in if there are more people pass then there are places available.

Angeldiver, yes that is possible. I could give him some 11+ practice tests and see how he copes but if we are not going to go through the application process this year then I would leave that until next year. I suppose it would give me an idea of how bright he is if I did them now, but I think the CAT tests which were suggested previously might be good for this also.

Does anyone know if CAT tests can be done outside of school, I have googled and it seems to be a testing scheme that is used within some schools but not all. Pretty sure our school doesn't use them.

Thanks again to everyone for your opinions and experiences it is really helping me get my head around whether or not this is something I want to pursue. Not sure I'm at a decision point yet and I might see if I can get a CAT test done and take it from there.

I would be interested to hear from those who have been accelerated in the past whether they felt any sibling relationships were affected.

But, again, how can you extrapolate from our experiences? I was grade skipped to the extent that I graduated from university at the same time as a considerably older sibling. I would say that it was difficult for my sibling, who felt overshadowed by me despite being very bright themselves (Oxbridge First etc).

I would also be very careful about whether your DS2 is rare within his current cohort or rare within the national cohort. What you describe (interest in science etc) is fairly typical amongst my DC's (selective) school peers - it wouldn't particularly stand out. So it might well be that your DS2 would find some peers within his own year at a grammar.

Another anecdote: in my own very selective school a number of kids were grade skipped - it was more common back then. Some of the grade skipped children excelled academically and went on to Oxbridge etc. But those grade skipped children who weren't top of the year and didn't quite get to top courses did ask themselves whether they would have done better in their original year groups. How would you feel if you grade skip your DS2 and then he doesn't get top grades?

Mumski, CAT tests are done at senior school, so your sons current school won't have them.

At the school I work at, they are done in the first week in year 7 and are used to put the children into sets.
This year, they were done online for the first time. The parent's are not given access to these scores.
The school my eldest dd goes to has the CAT score on every annual report, so I guess not all schools are secretive about them.

I did ask the grammar school where our dc are going whether they did CAT's, but for the life of me I can't remember what they said

Right. It might just be my area, but I'm fairly sure there are some funding concerns. I have come across students doing this, and have even been in a school where a group of around 30 students were moved up to 'fast track' them. In that circumstance, it was an utter disaster. They did their GCSEs a year early, and didn't get straight A*s. The teachers argued that what was the point in them being fast tracked if they weren't attaining the highest grades? There was a lot of shouting.....and then it was realised they wouldn't get funding at 6th form level until they were the right age. So they all just joined Year 11 again the following year.

To be honest, that's what I've come across before with individual students. At some point there's usually been a decision made to take them back down to their correct year.

OP, you're talking about trying to get him into the grammar school. If that's the case, then wait. He is unlikely to seem so exceptional in that context.

Nope : there are CATS tests (also GL tests - similar thing; lots of school use those for transfers) for year 4 :

www.gl-assessment.co.uk/support/cat4-product-support/cat4-test-level-age-guide/

DD is currently skipped a year in primary school. But we are going to move her back into her age cohort year for secondary. There's a whole heap of reasons for this, and a lot of the social ones have already been mentioned upthread, so I'll just tell you our specific experiences.

Firstly, skipping doesn't solve everything, far from it. Children like this learn faster, so it gives them something to do for a couple of years, but then they are in the same situation only a year further up. DD skipped in early primary and - academically - she was ready for another skip after about 2.5 years. Except we can't do that, so she is coasting again.

Also, there is the specific problem that DD will blame a lot of problems she is faced with - particularly social ones - on being skipped. Generally the skip isn't the problem, as she's more mature than many members of her class, but the fact that she has different interests and abilities does set her apart. But as a teenager, I can see that being skipped would get blamed for every single thing wrong in her life, and don't want that to happen.

Finally a good school should be able to differentiate at secondary level. I'd also look at scholarships to private schools if there are any good ones in the area, because they will have the resources and time to do this. Our current favourite school has offered to set separate work if necessary, while the local - very good - comprehensive has admitted that they could only stretch her in extra curriculars.

Also, we've talked to a lot of secondary schools and most of those who had tried skipping children in the past weren't happy with how it had worked out.

Finally, very few state schools will consider doing this at all - we were told when DD skipped a year in the first place that this basically confined us to the private system if we wanted her to stay in this year.

Finally - sorry, not thinking very straight today - skipping is used a lot in the US, and as a result they have developed the Iowa Acceleration Scale, which is a set of criteria used to evaluate whether a skip will work for a particular child, and takes in maturity as well as ability. Might be worth researching this.

I did this 30 odd years ago and, as others have said, I really wouldn't recommend it (actually I went from year 6 to year 8). I started uni the week I turned 17 and it was too young. I know the world has chnage massively since then but I think there are natural maturity points and doing them early is very hard, socially. I remember turning up at new year 8 class and everyone laughing at me because I didn't know what a blow job was.