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Gifted and talented

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Trigonometry

67 replies

user789653241 · 14/11/2015 18:46

When do they start learning Trigonometry?

My ds is eager to learn it because he needs it for advanced computer coding, but he hasn't mastered all the basics in maths yet.(he is in YR3, but mostly working on YR6+ curriculum at home.)

I think it's too early, and I can't help him with it because I haven't got a clue. So I have to rely on online tutorials completely. When are they going to be ready? What do they need to master before learning it?

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noblegiraffe · 14/11/2015 20:15

A student learning Y6 maths isn't ready for trigonometry. They could probably be taught to hammer buttons on a calculator but that's not the same thing as understanding it.

DH who is a programmer suggests he tries programming a minecraft mod (Java), or he learns Ruby or Python.

user789653241 · 14/11/2015 20:22

WildStallions,thank you for book link.
Yes he does java. Decided not to do ruby or c++, since there was a thread about programming, and somebody suggested it's better to concentrate on mastering HTML,CSS and Java first.
He can pretty much use them to make cool animation and stuff, but want to do more.

Greenleave, sorry my ds is all about computer. He hates writing, but spend hours writing on computer. He has few workbooks, but he doesn't use it at all. I can give you link to websites, but not any books! Sorry!

I can't type quickly, sorry!

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Greenleave · 14/11/2015 20:32

Irvine: he sounds really enjoy it and need to learn it and it helps with html, java and he is already up to that level so I dont find any issue. If he is so into it he will find joy living in the wonderful computer programming world! Nurture the interest, give him what he need!

WildStallions · 14/11/2015 20:32

Are you confusing Java with JavaScript? They're totally different.

user789653241 · 14/11/2015 20:42

...I actually finished course on codeacademy... I've done Java script, python, ruby, HTML, and PHP. So, I don't think I'm confusing anything?
I know they are different. I am trying C++ at the moment, but not enough time to try it out properly.

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Greenleave · 14/11/2015 20:44

Irvine: funny I work in Quant for a bank and the only one who doesnt know about C++ and all the above, they are forever useful!

TeaPleaseLouise · 14/11/2015 20:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Greenleave · 14/11/2015 20:46

There is a colleague of mine also mentioned about his son in year 4 started learning some programming and really enjoy it. He mentioned about a tool, I will ask him on Monday

user789653241 · 14/11/2015 20:46

Thank you, Greenleave

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user789653241 · 14/11/2015 20:52

Thank you TeaPleaseLouis I tried to learn everything myself so I can help my DS, but I'm too old for that, thus struggling to help.

It's good to get proper advice. Thanks!

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user789653241 · 14/11/2015 21:01

zzzzz, Thank you, he has mastered about 85% of pre algebra and 15% of algebra. So, we should work on that first. I think he is far from Trig!!!

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TeaPleaseLouise · 14/11/2015 21:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

user789653241 · 14/11/2015 21:58

Thank you OhYouBadBadKitten and noblegiraffe

He started doing python too.

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Mistigri · 14/11/2015 22:21

Why does he need trigonometry for programming?

My 12 year old started programming using C+ a while back (he's self-taught, no programmers in the family hence the slightly odd choice of language) and although he has done trig at school I am absolutely sure he has never needed it for programming!

user789653241 · 14/11/2015 22:45

Mistigri, it came up on the course he started doing. (the link on earlier on this thread.), but I wasn't sure he should do that yet. I don't think he is ready at all.

We have no programmers in family as well.
,

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user789653241 · 14/11/2015 23:23

To the people who think I'm a deluded boastful mum, that's actually true.
I'm working on maths and computing, in the middle of the night, after everybody has gone to bed, only because I want to help my ds.
I sometimes think I am really crazy myself.

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var123 · 15/11/2015 08:48

Trigonometry first puts in an appearance in level 8 (yes, I know there are no levels any more!) For some schools that's year 8, for others, its year 9 and I guess some students might not see it until they are preparing for their GCSEs in year 10.

As others have said, its hard to see how it will help programming though.

Irvine, what is your plan once you've got your DS up to GCSE level? At the rate you are going, he'll be there within a couple of years.

var123 · 15/11/2015 08:51

SOHCOHTOA is the mnemonic to help someone remember that sine (of theta degrees) = opposite / hypotenuse etc.

(I skim read the thread and I think someone mentioned it).

WildStallions · 15/11/2015 09:22

I don't think you're deluded.

I do think he should be able to teach himself programming. You don't need to keep ahead of him.

You need to choose a 'proper' language (ie not JavaScript), choose a project, and let him loose.

user789653241 · 15/11/2015 09:27

Var, there is no plan. That's the biggest problem for me. I was not educated in England, so I don't know anything about GCSE or A levels. Also I'm not strong at maths. My DS completely rely on online for learning maths, Only thing I asked him to do is, before moving on to next level, he has to finish the level first. So he is almost finished with YR6 on IXL, and occasionally does something from YR7 or YR8.(For him, he says it's a treat.)
Also he is working through Khan Academy, and he is doing Grade7 and grade8 stuff on them. But there are separate topic for Geometry, Algebra etc, so he sometimes choose to work on that as well. I asked him not to jump to things like trig or calculus until he has finished the earlier stages.
But he saw trig section on programming course so he asked me if he can try it.
We had a talk this morning and he agreed that it's too early for him.
Yes I think there are a lot of things he can do on computer without deep knowledge of maths, and I think we explore more on this.

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user789653241 · 15/11/2015 09:29

Thank you WildStallions Smile

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user789653241 · 15/11/2015 09:43

I know he needs deepening and stuff, but at school, he is doing normal YR3 curriculum things like times tables, without complaining, so I can't stop him going further at home. I am trying to encourage more problem solving kind of maths as well. But to be honest, I really don't know what to do. It's completely out of my depth.

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/11/2015 09:54

Irvine, one danger is that really bright kids can have an amazing rote memory and can go pretty far in maths just by learning processes rather than having a deep understanding. It gives such shaky foundations.

If he is a really keen reader I'd introduce the murderous maths series - it is just like horrible histories, but maths.
I would also explore the primary maths challenge website and the nrich website.

Then I would actually find something else entirely different from IXL and Khan, put those to one side if you can - encourage a real interest in something else - playing an instrument, sport if he doesnt do these already. Skills that will actually be really beneficial to his overall development. You won't be holding him back by doing this, you will be creating a really strong foundation that will help him in future.

BertrandRussell · 15/11/2015 10:00

"But he saw trig section on programming course so he asked me if he can try it.
We had a talk this morning and he agreed that it's too early for him."

Why not just let him try? If it's beyond him he won't be able to do it- if it isn't, he will.

If he was mine, though, I would be limiting the time he spends on maths and computers in the same way I limit screen time, and insist on broadening his interests. How about music, sport, reading, art, story writing?

var123 · 15/11/2015 10:08

I don't know which country's education system you are familiar with, but FWIW the English system is quite simple:-

At the end of year 11, (age 15 or 16) all children sit a set of exams that used to be called ordinary levels and are now called GCSEs. In the past, these exams were timed to coincide with children being old enough to leave school and get a job. They measure a basic level of understanding on a subject by subject basis. From high to low the grade is A*,A, B, C,D,...,G with C being considered the lowest acceptable level for the GCSE to count.

The Conservative Govt, under Michael Gove, tried to get rid of GCSEs because they had become devalued with increasingly large numbers of students getting the top grades, so there was very little differentiation. In the end, he failed but he did manage to make them a little more difficult and he changed the grading system to 9,8,7,...,1 with 9 being the top grade.

The first students will sit these "new" GCSEs in 2017.

Then there are two further years study at the end of which students sit A levels.

Taking 8 or 9 GCSEs is normal, and 3 or 4 A levels. Some do more, some do less, but these are typical numbers.

A Level results are what students use to gain entry to university, or at least they used to. A levels are also being accused of being dumbed down and so many universities now set their own entrance exams.

There are also AS levels, which seem to be a sort of intermediate A level.

(I am not English either btw, this is just what i have worked out form being around).

It is possible to take GCSEs and A levels early, but its unusual and it leaves a question about what to do next. Going to university early is also possible - I went shortly after my 17th birthday, for example - but it does mean that you miss out on some aspects of student culture if you go to early (or too late).