normal development compared to gifted/talented

[moomin86]

Hi there

I just wanted to ask what is normal or average development for a 16 month old and what are the signs that they may need to be challenged more as they get older or that they may be more advanced or gifted?

Ive found it hard discussing my daughter with people as I don't want people to feel I am boasting but I am unsure if I should be thinking about development and how we can support her as she gets older or if this is normal behaviour that will even out, or is it to early to tell?

When is the appropriate time to ask for help? as I feel she is completely different from her peers. I feel like I can't keep up with her but if I try and speak to friends I find the response negative and people become very defensive. I feel like a fish out of water and am concerned about getting her into an environment that will understand her needs. Her nursery have moved her up to try and challenge her more and I know she is no where near school age but I did not think she would be doing the things she is at this age but am unsure if my expectations are wrong as Ive never had a child before

Thanks in advance

Your daughter sounds great OP but I wouldn't get too concerned about trying to find her extra help just because she is developing in a more advanced manner to her peers. You sound like you're lacking a bit of self confidence which is perfectly understandable but have faith in your ability to keep up with daughter. You will know what is right for her. My DS did certain things earlier and in a more advanced manner than the nursery/school expected but that didn't mean he needed specialist help, he just needed the toys/books/activities that were appropriate for his level and they are things that you are able to actively facilitate yourself. If the nursery have moved her up then that is good as it sounds like they are already responding to her needs in the best way they can and you'll hopefully find the same when she gets to school age if she is still advanced at that point. I learned very early on to forget my son's actual age and just respond to him based on his interests.

I think it's a very clear indicator actually. Not talking in sentences at 18 months certainly doesn't exclude giftedness, of course, but I would be prepared to bet that any child talking in complex sentences with a large vocab at 18 months would be likely to get a high score in the verbal part of an IQ test at least.

My dad was a freakishly early talker. She started at 9 months, and was interviewed on local television news about the new swimming pool and was completely clear and comprehensible at the age of 18 months. I have a theory about it. I think that it was something about her physical development. She spoke very clearly from the beginning,never mispronouncing anything and never getting words wrong. I actually think they can all talk, it's just that we can only understand a few of them. So all the 18 month olds were saying "I like the warm fountain and the splashy pool" but dd was the only one who could say it so people could understand. She is clever, but by no means out of the ordinary- not really clever at all by Mumsnet standards! But she does have a beautiful and clear speaking voice still, and is a singer.

I was a freakishly early talker. I embarrassed my mother horribly when her friend, Brenda, was trying (and failing) to persuade her DS to say "hiya" to me when we were both around 15 months. Apparently I said "Well, it is awfully difficult Auntie Brenda". I'm bright but nothing special now.

Why are you counting words and how do you know she knows 'her phonics'

Just play with her

Well aware of that, both of mine read before 3 without me knowing how many phonic sounds they knew or how many words they could say

My kids were super normal. OP's DD is wildly advanced compared to my kids and fairly advanced compared to any other child I've ever known personally; some of whom got tagged as gifted in primary school.

Which is to say, ime, you really can't tell yet what they'll be like in school. I think just carry on as you are & see how things go.

Ds is gifted, I'd say academically A level Chemistry was a challenge but we coped fine before then and I learnt a lot from him. I still get the dubious honour of proofreading his dissertations for his Masters (final 11,000 one due in about a month, can't wait) on the grounds that my vocabulary and grammar is better than his I found keeping up with all of his scams the most difficult tbh it's surprising how many went undiscovered and I only found out about once he was an adult and he enlightened me!

Thank you everyone for your comments. I think I am just over wealmed (sorry spelling) but it thats all.Shes my first and Iive never been around kids. Im a full time worker so keep notes of when she reaches achievements etc as sometimes I miss them also I thought it may be nicw later to look back on her progress as she grows and she might be interested as well. Ita more for sentimental reasons. Imade a list of languages as I was just Iinterested. She knows phonics as around 11 months she became vert obsessive with books and would point to letters and say whats that so I would tell her and her 'love' for letters has carried on since then as well as her love for books. Ive tried to follow her lead.

Many of your comments have been very helpful

I know she knows her phonics as she will point to a letter on a t shirt in a book or on a van and say the phonetic sound for it without prompt or being asked too Just in response to someones question

If you look at lists of early indicators of being G&T then early talking etc will be there along with the caveat that some G&T are later talkers. My DS was an early talker who memorised phonics and whole stories very early on. He has a very high verbal IQ. He could never do jigsaws, shape sorters or basic maths and was slow to write. He also has dyslexia. He would sellotape fantastic constructions that filled whole rooms. He is creative.

So, from my perspective, these early indicators were actually very very true indicators of his skills/weaknesses that still remain 13 years later.

I think you run the risk of seeing life as a "race" and you feel that whilst your DD is currently in the lead (ahead of peers) she won't be able to keep it up.

You are stressed, but why?

Will this not lead to unhealthy pressure on your dd?

What on earth does "moving up" even mean, in a nursery setting?

So, from my perspective, these early indicators were actually very very true indicators of his skills/weaknesses that still remain 13 years later.
I suspect that is more of a self fulfilling prophecy. When a child is good at something, they do it more. When they are not so good at something, they do it less. 10 years later this is interpreted as a natural gift or weakness when it is simply a matter of interest and practice.

Her nursery have moved her into a group with older children as they have stated she was bored and not challenged with children her own age. Im not stressed id say im more overwhealmed by her abilities (rightly or wrongly maybe im naive as to what kids can achieve so young hence my post) and worry that people supporting her are already saying shes not challenged enough and could this continue to be a problem. Its by no means a race I just want to do whats best for her so thought id ask ppl who may be experiencing similar to how I feel or are in similar situation.

UnsolvedMystery Would you therefore say that there is no such thing as a natural gift/aptitude for something then? I would say that some of these early abilities might demonstrate an unusually good memory which might be something that was innate. A great artist might practise and draw a lot but most would agree that they also had an innate talent.

Innate talent is very questionable. There's been a lot of research done into this and it is abundantly clear that the masters of everything are always people who have practised significantly more than others.
Interest and pleasure are probably more relevant. A child who enjoys drawing will do it more so get better at it. Another child who doesn't enjoy it, simply won't practice so won't get that much better.
Even the child prodigies don't get there accident - they practice their skill obsessively (to the exclusion of other areas of their life).
There are other factors such as environment and opportunity - a child whose mum plays piano every day and sits on mum's lap learning to play from being a toddler - is far more likely to become an excellent pianist. Nurture is far more relevant than nature in that case.
It doesn't necessarily mean that obsessive practice will turn everyone into a master, but there are very few people who could practice anything obsessively and not get very good at it.
I also think that resilience is more important that any perceived gift. Those who pick themselves up and keep trying at something they can't do, will always do better than those 'naturally talented' who give up when it gets difficult.

UnsolvedMysery I hear what you are saying but believe that innate ability/genes/inherited factors are also very much part of the picture (eg. greater brain efficiency, brain deficiencies, wired differently). There is also a "three ring concept of giftedness" which is three interlocking rings labelled "task commitment, creativity, above average ability" with giftedness being a combo of the three.

I think what you do is nurture and encourage. She's verbal and picks up things quickly so nurture it. Lots of story books, lots of library, lots of phonics, puzzles, building games, painting, drawing, play doh, running, skipping, singing, dancing, chatting, petting farms, park, etc., etc.. Just keep her interested and motivated and encourage a love of life and a love of learning. Most of all love her.

If you do all of that she will fulfil all the natural talent she has (and make sure you send her to the best possible schools that you can).

I had a very alert, very verbal baby boy who seemed streets ahead of the others. We knew when he was barely weeks old that he was bright - it was in the eyes. We just nurtured him. He is at Oxford now studying a very academic subject.

I also had a bright baby girl but even in the earliest days we could tell she wasn't quite as bright. Certainly bright and certainly doing all your daughter is doing and an A grade student who might just slither into Oxford.

Was it nature, nurture or rising to expectation - probably a bit of all three but even if they had ended up in the lower sets at school we would have made sure they could be the best they possibly could be and would have had lives as joyous and enriching as we could have made them.

At the end of the day all we can do is set boundaries for our children, love them and keep them safe. If we do all that they are likely to grow up to be happy and rounded adults and that is all we should ever want for them.

But, good luck, because I well recall that it can be exhausting keeping up with an uber bright child or a child who is brighter than you expected. By the time ds went to bed my mouth used to hurt from answering his questions non stop throughout the day. It can still hurt when he's home and argues black is white . Parenting is a constant challenge and a challenge that never seems to go away. WELCOME.

Your DD sounds very advanced for her age.

Let's hypothesise that she is going to turn out to be highly intelligent. This is what I believe you can expect.

1. Other parents won't want to hear about it and teachers will not believe you. Or they will believe you but will say that you are wrong to focus on it. Or they will believe you but they will resist responding to it. Whichever, you'll have a hard time with it.

1. Your DD may look at older children and see her intellectual peers, but they will look back and see a younger child who is showing them up and who possibly only has the emotional maturity of her chronological age, even if she has interests more consistent with a much older child. Finding friends can be a real struggle for a gifted child and usually they will have to compromise by having friends who have zero interest in some of the things your DD will find fascinating.

1. If you exclaim now over all the little triumphs, you run the risk of having your DD define herself by her cleverness. Thinking that you are clever can encourage perfectionism which I think is bordering on mental ill health. Maybe that is putting it too strongly but perfectionism is certainly not a route to happiness.

1. The mainstream school system might be called "comprehensive" but it does not cater well for the exceptional - whether they are exceptional in a good way or in a bad way. There are systems in place to help those who are academically weak or suffering from a SEN (special educational need e.g. dyslexia). However, even then, the parents have to fight very hard to get the help their child needs. When it comes to the G&T children, the prevailing attitude is that they will do well whatever, so no special provision is required to keep them occupied.

Much depends on the individual teachers, but you need to keep in mind the government rhetoric. Teachers are being strongly encouraged to apply a minimum standard and this takes up much of their time. There is no inducement to develop the most able, apart from the teacher's professionalism (and some aren't very professional!).

1. The grammar system kicks in at 11, but only in certain geographic areas. Even then, anecdotally, it doesn't always answer the problem. The other option is to get your DD into a selective independent school, as long as you can afford the fees, there is one near you and your DD can pass the entrance exam.

TBH its easy to look after a young child who is very able. You just need to talk to her and to keep her supplied with books and toys that will slightly challenge her (fewer flashing lights and more wooden puzzles). The difficult part comes later when she's in a mixed ability class at school.

Recent research:

scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Macnamara-et-al.-2014.pdf

More than 20 years ago, researchers proposed that individual differences in performance in such domains as music, sports, and games largely reflect individual differences in amount of deliberate practice, which was defined as engagement in structured activities created specifically to improve performance in a domain. This view is a frequent topic of popular science writing—but is it supported by empirical evidence? To answer this question, we conducted a meta-analysis covering all major domains in which deliberate practice has been investigated. We found that deliberate practice explained 26% of the variance in performance for games, 21% for music, 18% for sports, 4% for education, and less than 1% for professions. We conclude that deliberate practice is important, but not as important as has been argued.

You really can't tely on early talking/reading/walking to indiAte gifted as by the time they are 7 you will probably have no idea who did what earliest.
For context ds1 did not utter a single word until he was 2 years and 3 months, before he was 3 he was reading books such as Charlie and the chocolate factory etc. he started walking ages 9 months. He is now 8 and on the g&T or whatever the equivalent is nowadays for English. He has had to have physio for poor muscle tone, so complete opposite from what you would have thought at 16 months.
DD on the other hand would have a complete grammatically correct grown up conversation with you at 18 months and although is very bright and creative isn't gifted. Reading didn't click into place for her until just turned 6, yet she had the same parents and upbringing as ds1