AIBU to think that parents who hope their child is especially clever, don't know what they are wishing for?

[var123]

Its nice when your toddler can do things much earlier than anyone expects, especially if you more or less miss the frustration that marks the terrible twos because their communication is already so good that they don't feel frustrated.

And when competitive mothers at the mother and toddler group start comparing development, you know they won't want to compare progress with you.

However, it begins to turn on its head at school. You child is exceptional and unfortunately, schools don't really cater for the exceptional. That means frequent trips to school to try to encourage some sort of response from the teachers. there is some funding for extra help for children who struggle to pick things up but nothing for the other end of the spectrum and the system just isn't set up to encourage schools to help them. Its all "no child left behind".

So, it will be frustrating watching your child tread water for prolonged periods, not to mention worrying when you see the impact this has on your child.

Then there are the potential issues of difficulty finding friendships, asynchronous development, boredom at school and perfectionism.

For the parents, its just hard work (and potentially expensive) trying to feed a voracious appetite for knowledge at home.

For all the pride and amazement I felt when my children were little and could read etc with alarming ease, I realise now that our lives would have been much easier if they had just been a little less clever.

She was no way near the other end of the spectrum, tbh. Just that square peg, I guess.

Being challenged has been a problem for me, especially with Ds2. Ds2 has no social problems at all but he has become very lazy.

He's still at primary school but has become so used to not having to work and still being miles ahead in maths, that he has become lazy. He now pushes back quite hard if asked to make a big effort, irrespective of the subject. In maths, he either won't or can't give explanations, only the answer.

He wasn't like this is the beginning - in infant school, he was enthusiastic - but going over and over the same things for years has made him complacent.

Hi VAR, have you tried to find something outside of school he likes and then link performance at school with rewards outside. For us it was horse riding, this has always helped in lots of areas of dds work and behaviour.

I think I disagree, OP. There are particular challenging behaviours that are more common in very clever children, but they're not inherent to it. I have one of those hyper-sensitive ones and it's very hard work dealing with meltdowns and helping him learn to cope, but it's the hypersensitivity, not the brightness, that is the problem.

Yes schools can be a bit crap at challenging them but they need to learn to develop their own motivation and they need coping strategies for when school is boring - I would argue that actually is good preparation for real life - the workplace isn't going to always give you challenging, interesting things to do. It's really not that hard to help them develop interests outside school. It's certainly never been easier, thanks to internet, the cheapness of books, etc. My clever children certainly still have plenty to learn that they can learn at school (social skills for example).

As an adult who did very well academically, married to another one who was marked out as a gifted child at school (he's now a maths prof) I think we are both damn lucky both in the opportunities this has afforded us and the way it makes it easier for us to navigate the complexities of 21st century life (when a problem came up with our house sale, for instance, and we were able to sort it out faster than our solicitor could, or when trying to figure out the labyrinthine complexities of energy pricing ).

Cleverness isn't the first gift I would ask the fairy godmother to give my child and it's certainly not necessary for happiness, but it makes the child pretty fortunate IMO.

DS2 is obsessed with minecraft and we've tried that. The problem is the teachers undermine us by saying that DS2's work is ok. He's barely made any progress in English for years but they just keep saying that he's within the range of the class.

I have three DC, one very disabled, one slightly disabled and one high achiever.

It was much easier parenting the high-achiever, honestly. But I do remember the most difficult stage was between 8 and 14: ie, before there was some serious work available at school. I was highly neglectful very into self-directed study at that age.

Agree entirely with Turnip and Beast. Also suggest you avoid sending the message to your child that primary school is failing them. In my book as long as they come away fro that stage of schooling with the idea that school is generally a good place to be you are on to a winner.

My sympathy lie with parents of disabled children, i know from personal experience their fights are more fundamental.

I agree about the importance of a positive attitude to school, Dormouse.
It doesn't even have to mean not letting the child see you sometimes disagree with the school - a bright child ought to be able to hold in their head the idea that teachers don't know everything, in parallel with respect for the teacher. So I wouldn't be afraid to say: your teacher thinks your English is good enough, I think you can and should do better.

I don't agree really. I was that child, and managed. Though I didn't like school, there was no dramatic torment. We were, effectively, schooled at home as well as at school to keep us interested and engaged.

DS is that child, he's doing fine. As did the Dnephews, one of whom is an astonishing genius. Unhappiness is not a given. A selective secondary school helps a great deal.

I agree, it is a conversation i have had with my children when they say "but my teacher said it is ok", i have explained that ok is not enough in real life if you have aspirations to be the best that you can be.

"We were, effectively, schooled at home as well as at school to keep us interested and engaged. "

This is what i meant in the OP when i said:-

"For the parents, its just hard work (and potentially expensive) trying to feed a voracious appetite for knowledge at home."

"The grass is always greener etc, I suspect that parenting an all-rounder who makes friends easily and is challenged by top set work would be the ideal!"

It's a deep, verdant green.

Organically reared Y7 DD is one of the 'has it all' types and although rarely challenged academically, she'll typically find some way to make too-easy stuff entertaining. She is very reserved around children she doesn't know (wants to figure out their angles first) but once past that she is very modest character and a cheerful good sport, so most children tend to like her.

I suspect trying to feed a voracious appetite for life isn't that different to the knowledge-only version, except we get more aches and pains from having to run after them.

[With DD being the one to beat in several domains I suspect we also had to endure a lot more crap from our little collection of competitive parents]

My DDs were in the three tier schooling system. The first school was frustrating, in so much that the teachers seemed to be hobbled. A lot was done at home, especially reading suitable books and not the Chip/Kipper things. At middle school, it was again an easy coast, should they have wanted it. Both DDs socialised well at this age. The school was only interested in getting the borderline pupils through the SATS (Y6?). It was only at senior school when the teachers woke up (may have been due to the CAT tests).

What I'm saying (in a long winded way) is don't worry when they are young. You can provide all the extras they need intellectually at home so let them socialise and develop their soft skills.

Both are now in their final year of university, having taken very different roads. One Oxbridge, one Russell.

I agree with var that not all talented children be the primary years with the idea that school is a nice place to be in.
And if you read ZmN you will see a lot if adults now that tell you they have completely underachieved because they were so used to find everything easy that once they suddenly had to make an effort, they didn't know how to do it, nor dud they want to do it.
This has been a really issue firm a and one if the reasons why I ousted dc1 into sport, something that hasn't coming as easily to him. The other reason was that doing a sport, esp football when he was young helped him to make friends.
But I have the same thing with dc1 than the OP sees with her dcs. A the other children in the class know he us chèvre and I've heard his friends stating as a fact like they would say he has brown eyes. I'm bit sure I'm so comfortable about it.

There's more then one sort of intelligence ahead academically does not equal ahead in life

My advice would be to focus on rounding the child's abilities and spend less time focusing on the academics

I would say being in the middle of the pack is worse teachers tend to forget these children

But school us very much about academia. There us a lot talk about schools also being about developing social skills etc but the reality is that children aren't taught these. They are expected to pick it up as they go along and have to work together. Ime with a child with poor social skills is that it's at home you can make a difference. A child that is struggling socially will be receiving little support on that side, SN or not.

So you go back to the initial OP where as a parent you have to put a lot if effort in, more than with the 'average' child. Again, just my experience, but it's not dissimilar than a child with SN. Except that I expect to to be shot for saying that.

If teachers forget the mid-range children, then they will have got a flush!
Parents of the least able seem to have an uphill battle to get their children the help they need.

DS1's HT told me "DS is the sort of child we teachers can forget" (he was explaining why the school had forgotten DS).

So, if the middle children get forgotten too, then who do the teachers actually remember?!

I wouldn't shoot you, pots. But I have actually done the experiment, as it were.

One profoundly disabled child, now aged 18, functions as a 2 year old.
One moderately disabled child, dyspraxic, slightly LD.
One high achiever. Tested with his siblings and had an IQ of 174.

It is easier to feed a voracious mind than it is to deal with DC who are in nappies and pushchairs until they are 12. It is easier to handle a tantrum from a bored but clever DC than to deal with full blown autistic meltdowns.

It is also much less depressing, tbh.

School is frankly not where it's at until they are much bigger, and I also agree that a selective secondary school is a help. But they have plenty to do learning their social skills when they are little. Never wasted effort. Takes them five minutes to catch up with something new academically, but if they are anxious or depressed then no amount of brains will enable them to reach their potential.

"who do the teachers actually remember?"

Hands-up girl and disruptive boy (or vice versa).

""We were, effectively, schooled at home as well as at school to keep us interested and engaged. "

This is what i meant in the OP when i said:-

"For the parents, its just hard work (and potentially expensive) trying to feed a voracious appetite for knowledge at home.""

I'm not picking a fight. I'm really not. But it is no different for the parent of a child who doesn't get the school's method of teaching but also isn't low down enough to qualify for help.

I've spent my time making montessori bead bars because that's what DD2 understands. I've made flash cards because she gets rote learning better than the 'learning by osmosis' that is fashionable in schools now. I don't doubt it works for many kids, but for DD2 it is disastrous. So she gets a 'Swiss cheese' education -still technically a cheese but so many holes that you're getting half the amount of cheese than typical cheeses of the same size.

I have to try and work out where the holes are (she can't tell me because she hasn't quite got that I don't know what she's thinking and I wasn't with her during her school day -she's 7) and then think of ways to fill those holes in.

It's exhausting and it's why she's in her third school in three years. I tell the school she isn't coping, they don't believe me because she smiles (to try and be 'good' so they like her), then she crashes and burns.

My eldest DD has SN and goes to a fabulous SS, so we're really lucky in that sense. Many parents of similar children are fighting their way through MS schools with fairly inadequate support.

My youngest is a dream, really. Vivacious, energetic, inquisitive and engaged in life. She can find a 1cm square spot of soil fascinating. She has a thirst for knowledge and she tackles life head on.

I think I may have been misunderstood in my OP. I wasn't saying that parents of very able children have it harder than any other group.

I was just inspired by a couple of conversations I've had recently with parents of very young children who think their children may be gifted and who want to compare their children at their current age with what my children were at the same age.

Then, on MN, I noticed quite a lot of threads on G&T that go along the lines of "my very young child is really clever (stealth boast). So, what shall i say to the reception/ nursery teacher to get him/ her taught at the right level from week one?"

It just left me pondering how parents of young children seem to wish very high IQs on their children and assume that the world has structures in place to accommodate them.

My post was supposed to say that I wish the world did, but IME, it really doesn't and moreover, its hard going at times to meet your child's needs. I feel as though i am on my own with it.

I can't tell other parents that my DS was really upset because he only got 95% in an exam and that I worry about how damaging his perfectionism is on his mental health.

I can't expect the primary school teachers to think that DS2's English work really does not reflect his ability and that if he doesn't pull his socks up, he'll end up at risk of failing badly, because all they see is NC levels that "other children would love to attain".

i could go with a million examples, but really all I wanted to say was that new parents ought to be careful what they wish for!

PiqueABoo - very true!

I have one very bright 4 year old and a gifted 6 year old.

My 4 year old is so, so easy to deal with. He is lively, articulate, finds school work easy and is a couple of years ahead, but loves it. We have no issues at all and currently he's just breezing through school with ease. Having a 'bright' child is fantastic.

My 6 year old is a whole different kettle of fish. He is exceptional, and in all truthfulness I wish he was less intelligent. He finds school frustrating because his teacher will not move him on from Year 5 work as she's worried he will be too far ahead. Some of the Year 5 kids have been horrible to him because they haven't appreciated having a 6 year old put in their maths lessons who is answering every question first. He is slowly becoming ostracised from his peer group because he talks about things and has interests that are beyond the rest of the class...and then he gets upset because he just can't understand why the other boys don't want to spend their playtimes talking about the interesting things that are happening in the news.

His teachers no longer know what to do with him because the class trips, the activities and group learning they do in his class are far too easy for him. Imagine dumping an 11 year old in a class with 6 year olds, and that 11 year old listening to the conversation and logic of 6 year olds, the banal topics they discuss, the childish jokes...and imagine how frustrated that 11 year old would be. Mentally, that's ds, every day. His life is really not easy, and we have no way to make it easier for him, which is very difficult.

Have you thought of joining NAGC (potential plus) for your son? They have all sorts of get togethers which will give your son some sort of outlet. Its not a whole solution, but it may help.

I didnt do this myself BTW, but it might be something for you to think about.

They also give very good advice eg praise effort, not attainment, which I did take.