I have seen it mentioned about 'statements' for gifted children

[Cat98]

Can someone explain this, please? Does it mean a statement of special needs?
Would it help ds (very talented at numeracy) to have one, and if so how far advanced would he have to be to get one, and how would we get one?

Sorry for all the questions, I am clueless about this stuff but I'm a bit concerned the school won't be able to differentiate appropriately for him.
Thank you.

Keepon - he could be what I think they call dual exception. This is where they are extremely clever but have some other learning problem or disability which masks their intelligence or where the intelligence masks the problem. I don't really understand it all though so can't help more than that.

Thanks for the replies.
We have now had notification of parents eve. It's the first week in November.
I'm now wondering whether to maybe make an appt to see the teacher before then, but how would I broach the subject without sounding like a pushy mum?

Keep Periwinkle is on to something with the term "dual exceptional" or "twice exceptional" or 2E. It is exactly the same with my DS who has dyslexia. Junior school never acknowledged his very high verbal IQ score. However, Secondary school has been much better. Despite still average Levels, he is in the G&T Club and is a student councillor. The G&T co-ordinator "got him" from the moment she met him but he was very misunderstood at Junior school and even placed on the bottom table at one point. Potential Plus also have lots of information on this subject: www.potentialplusuk.org/.

Thanks for the info

Good to hear that secondary school has been better for your DS kitchen.

On the one hand the specialist ASD nurse who observed DS2 in class says it might all be beneath him but in the next breath suggests medicating him. I can't get my head around it.

Sorry for the hijack cat.

If I were particularly concerned I would not want to wait for parents' eve but make an appointment for a general chat about progress with his CT. The CT is also likely to be pushed for time and have her own agenda of things to communicate on parents' eve.

The key to whether a child needs a statement is their ability to access the curriculum regardless of assessed cognitive ability or attainment levels. Discrepancy between ability and achievement usually refers to children with SEN who are above average ability but are underachieving but maybe not at the (unlawful) levels used by LAs (such as a blanket policy that assessment is only carried out if a child is below level 1 in year 7). I am not sure whether it would be ruled that a G&T child who does not also have SEN but is underachieving would qualify in the same way. I am in no doubt that initial application would be refused and that it would take, perhaps more than one, tribunal hearing.

It might be worth your while contacting Potential Plus for advice. My experience is that you have to be below a certain level to receive help, no matter if they are underachieving or have high IQ potential. You can also see that it wouldn't be fair to offer one child help but not another if they are both operating at the same level - no matter that one child is at the top end of their ability and the other at the bottom - bit of a minefield.

If you do a Google search on "twice exceptional" or "dual exceptional" and you will find tons and tons of useful information.

DS1 has a statement and is placed in OOC Indi ss. He got 2b, 2a and 3 at KS1 but can't access the curriculum independently and needs specialist support.

He could not access GCSEs at secondary in m/s and was only offered functional skills.

I think the difference is whether or not the child's attainment gap compared to their peers reverses (from above to below average) or increases. G&T DC that remain average despite underachieving do not 'need' the same level of support.

We're in a very similar position here with DS1, just moved into Yr 1 & the school hasn't done anything specific this year so far apart from letting him choose higher-level reading books. In Reception he was going to the older years for literacy - six of them from his class of 30 and he was the only boy.

I have concerns about the separate teaching but on the other hand I remember being bored at primary school having finished my work & going round helping the other children, then covering up I knew things so as not to be labelled "brainy" etc (didn't work!). I don't want him to end up at a lower level due to neglect of skills or him intentionally hiding it, unless of course he naturally levels out.

We're planning to tackle it at parents' evening then with separate appointments. The information on this thread has been very helpful.

Naturally levelling out is a phrase I have often read. What levels out - attainment or assessed cognitive ability? Eg if a child is on the 99th percentile will time alone mean that they may be on the 50th percentile a couple of years later?

Cognitive ability tends to be pretty stable in later childhood, so tends not to 'level out'. Obviously you can see the odd percentile difference from test to test though, both due to differences of the respective tests and simply due to performance on different days.

I think what people mean by 'levelling out' would be: if the child had an excellent start due to being either an only child or PFB, rather than due to high cognitive ability, other children would catch up.

Are cognative ability tests the VR and NVR tests of the sort children study for at 11+?

No idea about assessment, good question. They just started gushing about DD and dry letter about DS.

DD got L6, with maybe 6 weeks of extra tuition (at very very very max, I have very long story behind this). I humbly submit that if a child needs lots of extra tuition all year to have a decent chance at L6 maths then then maybe the regular teaching is truly rubbish or the child was never that able to begin with which teachers should be able to tell. That would bother me a lot more than statemented or not.

Now I'm confused

I thought Verbal Reasoning and Non-Verbal Reasoning scores were assessed using WISC or BAS (or CAT scores)??

Assuming that DS2 get appropriate support and fulfils his potential (you have to have dreams to make them a reality) and we apply to the local grammar, would they have a different way of assessing VR and NVR? Is this in addition to sitting the 11+?

Sorry for all the questions

VR and NVR are an element of the WISC and maybe BAS (I am not familiar with that one). The 11+ usually consists of VR and NVR, but it varies very much from school to school and many now test English and Maths too. The VR and NVR can be set by GL, who also set the CAT papers, but some schools set their own papers entirely.

A VR/NVR score on the WISC is likely to be very similar to a score on the GL papers and CATs - at least that is the theory. You are unlikely to get huge differences in the percentile rankings at any rate, although actual scores do vary from test to test.

I think my (dyslexic) DS might be the exception here, but he has had huge differences on these various tests. His verbal IQ on the BAS was 50 percentile points above his school verbal CATS test. I put this down to the fact that the BAS was spoken and administered by a qualified psychologist whereas the CATS test was a group test and had to be read.

Yes, kitchen diner, that is a 'huge' difference and would be explained by the administration of the test and the fact that your DS is dyslexic. Just proves you have to be a bit of an expert to interpret these tests; you need to understand exactly what the test is testing and the limitations of each test.