Help!

[CouthyMow]

My DS1 has been on the G&T register since Pre-school. He has just finished Y5. I have entered him for the 11+ in the advice of his school.

When he was 8yo, the school did a test of his IQ, can't remember the test name, but it came out that he was in the top 2% of the population, with an IQ of 132.

In our area, the only Grammar school for boys is a superselective that only takes 96 boys a year.

However, now that someone a kind benefactor is paying for tutoring, despite his IQ, despite his NC levels (5b in English, working at level 6/7 on teacher assessments in Maths, at the end of Y5), it has thrown up the fact that he is getting horrendously bad marks in the practice tests he is doing in English comprehension.

He is currently working on the Bond comprehension Fourth papers for age 10-11, and his marks on each paper vary wildly from 28% to 66%.

I had not done very much with him at home because a) I couldn't personally afford a tutor, and b) his school was giving him after school tutoring for the whole of Y4 & Y5, and that tutor was saying that he was getting at least 88% in the English practice papers he was doing, and 99%-100% in the VR and Maths, so I thought he would be fine.

What do I do? He WANTS to be at the Grammar, he deserves to be at the Grammar, but I feel that the fact that I personally haven't been able to pay for a tutor for him for this year has held him back, especially as the 11+ has been moved from November to September for our area THIS YEAR, giving me two months less prep time.

He is doing at least one comprehension paper a day, through choice, and is reading a wide(r) variety of books to get used to different writing styles.

What else can I do? I want him at the Grammar because of the ethos, and he would 'fit in' so much better there than he would at the local Secondary, which I know as my older DD is there in Y9.

Why has his issues with comprehension not been flagged up to me by his school? Or is it just the form that the 11+ tests take?

It frustrates me that my area doesn't do NVR, as this and Maths are his strongest areas.

DS1 REALLY wants to go to the Grammar, but I feel that my lack of money for tutoring over a longer period of time has hampered him, in SN area where wealthy parents will tutor their DC's heavily from the start of Y4 to get them into this school, so as not to pay private fees, but my DS1 is only getting properly tutored from the last week of Y5 until the test, and only then because of a kind benefactor.

Is there anything else I can do to help DS1?

Thing is, he is a consistent level 5b at the end of Y5 in English, his weakest area. I highly doubt his IQ HAS gone down, his knowledge of Mathematical Concepts and the depth and breadth of his Scientific knowledge attests to his IQ. It just so happens that English Comprehension is his weakest subject. That and Drama.

He is also very good at languages, and wants to learn Latin to help him pursue his dream of a career in Medicine.

The Grammar school teaches Latin from Y7. There is NO opportunity to learn Latin at the closest Secondary school, which he would be certain to be allocated if he doesn't pass the 11+ and get offered a place at the Grammar school, due both to proximity and a sibling link via his older sister.

He has thought this out long before now. And as for the school 'tutor', he is a supply teacher the school keep on their books, who is used to give tuition to DC's, usually to help them catch up on work that hasn't been taught if they have had one of a couple of particular teachers.

IMO, having two of these teachers in a row is why DS1 is having this tuition, along with the rest of his class, so as the school can still be seen to be making the 'appropriate' levels of progress between KS1 & KS2 SATS.

It is telling that the class that had one of these teachers is also getting the tuition this year. And the other one has left the school under mysterious circumstances, with no further job announced on the newsletter (never happened before...)

I think that the tutor is actually hired for this reason, but given DS1's achievements in most areas, the school directed some if the tuition time towards the 11+, as they make a big hoo-ha each year of x amount getting into the girls Grammar and y amount getting into the Boys Grammar, conveniently ignoring the fact that with a relatively affluent intake, the DC's will have been extensively tutored outside of school.

And if DS1 DOES have gaps in his knowledge, IMO it has nothing to do with his IQ, and everything to do with the fact that he had poor teachers for Y3 AND Y4.

I make up what I can at home. But I'm not a teacher or a tutor.

And if the tutor had been giving me a realistic idea of his progress, rather than telling me he got 98%, 99%, 100% on tests, and told me that he DID need more work on Comprehension, then I would have been doing more at home with him much sooner.

I am working on Punctuation with my 8yo with SEN, as it was highlighted in his school report. Mostly because he has never been taught it, as he was being taught in a 'remedial' group until very recently, and he has been expected to go from the 'remedial' group back into the classroom, while somehow apparently being meant to possess skills he has never been taught.

I have no problem working on things at home with them, but what I was getting from the class teacher, (also the Deputy HT for Y5) the HT, and the tutor at the school was that if he didn't pass the 11+ and get into the Grammar they would eat their hats...

They all have told me that he is the brightest boy they have ever seen, and is truly gifted (so they keep telling DS1 and me). They have not ONCE told me that he has issues with his Comprehension that would possibly cause him to miss out on a place at the Grammar.

And if I had been paying for the tutor he has now, months ago, (not that I'm paying now, mind you), these issues would have been picked up on months ago.

So it is purely down to lack of money, IMO, why DS1 may miss out on a place at the Grammar school. Which saddens me, because I truly believed that it was the best way out of this for my DS1.

And I have spent the last god knows how many years defending Grammar schools against accusations of 'selection by the back door' of those DC's whose parents had enough money to tutor them to the test. I truly believed that the 11+ would be a test that was able to be passed on academic ability alone, irrespective of tutoring and hot housing etc.

It remains to be seen how DS1 will do in the 11+, but my hopes are slim now. And for a DC as bright as he IS, limiting his options by him ending up at a school that may not offer triple science, and definitely doesn't offer Latin, is doubly frustrating.

FGS, this is a child who can explain Quadratic equations at 10yo, and draw some graph thing from them that I don't fully understand as an adult. This is a child that can have an intelligent conversation about molecules, and ionic and covalent bonding of atoms. Yet because he hasn't been taught to interpret various pieces of text and gain answers that are inferred, he is undeserving of a place in Grammar school?!

Of the two boys in his year that are also sitting the 11+, one has been tutored since Y2 for 3 hrs a week, and the other has been tutored for 5 hours a week since the start of Y3.

I can't see how they DON'T have a massive advantage over my DS1, despite the fact that my DS1 is consistently working on higher level work in class, in all areas except English, where they all work on the same work.

Tbh, it's making me a bit that it all boils down to money, even getting into Grammar school, because that's often the best route to the best education for the poor but clever DC's. And now it isn't that either...

Sorry, but if your kid is as bright as you and the school say he is then he will get in. I know one really bright girl who comes from a similar background & no way would she not get in. even without any tutoring - that's the definition of bright!!! Tutoring helps the borderline cases really, so try not to panic,

BTW, I agree that the grammar system is unfair and am glad my children go to a comprehensive.

You do not need Latin to do medicine and you haven't for at least 25 years.
You don't necessarily need separate sciences at GCSE to do science A Levels anymore.
My daughter's school now do a double science award which they assure me makes them eligible to do 3 science A levels. Not relevant to her, but very important to my son who wants to do engineering.

His options will not be limited if he goes to the same school as his sister unless you give him the idea that it would be a disaster. IF that happens, he will simply need to regroup and carry on working. Mixing with a wider cross-section of society will probably even make him a more understanding doctor!

Not that I disagree that the system is unfair.

Actually, if I understand your circumstances correctly it could ADVANTAGE him to go to the local comp because of the university quota system - they want talented people whose parents haven't got much income or been to uni themselves. Certainly don't treat it as a disaster if he doesn't get in.

Couthy it's probably good that other posters have pointed out that it's really not the end of the world if he doesn't get in and certainly if that's what happens, you'll need to make sure he knows it and isn't devastated. That's not to say that it's unreasonable of you to want him to go to what you believe to be the best school and the best fit: any parent would want that.

He seems very clever, so he must still have a good chance despite this unexpected handicap. Instead of focusing on the money aspect and upsetting yourself about things you can't change, why not work with him on this specific area of English comprehension, to the best of your ability, in the time available? Have a look at the guidelines others have mentioned on teaching inference. Maybe choose short texts and take the time to interpret them with him. Try and look at strategies with him to find out what the question is really asking and how to puzzle out the answer. I'm sure he can improve at it with encouragement. Breaking it down with him may be helpful. Even things like always reading the question 3 times or looking at it piece by piece might make a difference. AFAIR, some of the problems in comprehension are connected to whizzing through the questions without reading them properly.

After that, he can only do his best and you'll have to help him deal with whatever outcome comes his way. Fingers crossed for you!

This maybe helpful and loads of practice: www.amazon.co.uk/Bond-Secrets-Comprehension-Guide/dp/0748784802/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343750960&sr=1-1-spell

If he is bright and you are on benefits why don't you look at independent schools and apply for a bursary and scholarship.
If he's outstanding academically they will be really interested in him especially if he has any other talents.
Look at which schools do NVR as part of entrance exams.
You might get 100% bursary if he does very well or a mix of scholarship and significant bursary. Good luck!

Oh, don't worry, I am approaching the WHOLE 11+ thing from a totally different angle WITH HIM. To him, it is all about how it won't hurt to have a try, and know that YOU have done YOUR best, and that not getting a place doesn't make you NOT clever, just that there are 96 people who got better marks on the test on THAT ONE DAY than you did...out of 600+ people who took the test and applied for that school!

I have also been 'bigging up' the Local Comp, explaining the things they offer to their top set DC's. But no matter HOW hard I try, his answer is "Surely being top of the top set at the Comp is only equivalent to being bottom of the bottom set in the Grammar." . Oh not to have such a perceptive child...

He doesn't have any issues with the whole not 'getting' what the question is asking, more that he understands what the question is asking, but as he has to write down an answer that isn't IN the text, but is merely inferred by the text, he is getting stumped on those questions, but those questions are often worth 3/4 marks...

The double science award might allow them to do 3 sciences at A-level in a school with a 6th form. None of the schools in this town (except the Grammars and one other that there is NO way he will fit the allocation criteria for, too far away) have a 6th form. At the 6th form college, due to competition, you NEED to have triple science at GCSE to do 3 sciences. Something to do with timetabling?

Hence he needs triple science in order to do three science A-levels. OK, the Latin, he doesn't NEED it - but HE personally WANTS it.

I spoke to his tutor today, as she had phoned me for another reason, and she said not to worry, he is "A very bright boy, it's early days, don't worry about him".

So I don't know if she can see that with the work we are putting in he will be OK, I don't know?!

DS1 is doing a paper from the Bond books every day, even at his dad's, through choice. They haven't been marked, but I can do that when he comes home. I need to pick up the next one for him and drop it off tomorrow, the 10-11 Fifth papers.

I wouldn't know the first THING about independent schools, I never thought about them, as why would I get something for free when everyone else there has had to pay for it? It's not something that would have ever occurred to me tbh. How would you find out about independant schools in your area? And wouldn't the Summer Holidays before the start of Y6 be too late to start looking into that?

Have you noticed how competitive my son is yet.... It would be so much easier if he was laid back, and not bothered either way. I have been guided by HIM though, HE wants to go to the Grammar, HE wants to do the additional subjects offered there, HE showed ME the online prospectus and the different subjects they offer at the Grammar that just AREN'T offered at the Comp, and HE was the one bugging me to put in an application for the 11+ the day the online applications opened...

the other has been tutored for 5 hours a week since the start of Y3.

Good lord-how?? Do they have a tutor coming round every single school day for an hour!?

He can still be a doctor even if he doesn't do 3 science a'levels. He#s going into the exams knowing what he has to do so I can't really see that he is missing out by not being extensively tutored so don't worry.

Two hours on a Friday, two on a Saturday and an hour in the week, apparently...

Two hours on a Friday, two on a Saturday and an hour in the week, apparently..

Blimey!

DS just has me for half an hour whenever I can corner him near a table in the dining room!

It is definitely NOT too late to look at independent schools.
Look at websites of ones in your area.
Generally entrance exams are held in the January of the year your child will start, so Jan 2013 for Sept 2013 start but some schools hold exams late in the autumn term.
Speak to the school bursar to find out financial thresholds for their bursaries, remember bursaries are there to help bright kids from households with not a lot of money.
As it's holiday time you might not get anyone on the phone but it's worth e mailing as schools don't want to lose potential students so will probably pick up messages from time to time.
Even if you wait til term starts you won't be too late.
Worth a look, you might find it's the answer for you. I speak from experience of this.

As one who went to a grammar school in a highly selective area (and also went on to study medicine with double science gcse) I can tell you that the bottom of the bottom set at the grammar is way below the top of the top set at the comprehensive - some children don't sit the exam, some are late developers, some mess it up in the day, some lose interest, some gain interest, some are extensively coached for the 11-plus but aren't actually that bright etc etc We had people who got Ds and Es in their GCSEs at my grammar school which was regarded as one of the best in the country, and people at the comprehensive down the road got all As. So maybe have a talk to your son about the reality of selection on the basis of a single exam and how restrictive it is to assume this reflects anything more than performance on a particular day. It is that sort of black and white thinking (which really isn't perceptive) which will stop him succeeding in his aims, not whether he goes to the grammar school or not.

Ok, so this is 20 odd years ago but I agree with chocolatecrispies: I was in top sets of a (very average) comp and I and several of my friends got straight As (no A*s of course) at GCSE and A level whereas the children a few villages along who went grammar and were in bottom sets achieved mostly Bs and Cs.

It's the same now, I work in a grammar where we have 100% pass rate above grade C for all entries but that means some of those ARE Cs and Bs (maybe from the children who were coached like billy ho for 11+ but were only level 4 in KS2 - yes we get lots of those). Local comp (again very average on paper) gets loads of kids with 10 or more A*s.

I'm sure your ds stands a really good chance of passing anyway but if he doesn't, it really isn't the end of the world!

Surely, in a grammar school area you cannot have a comprehensive school 'down the road'?

You can if they are several villages away (say 15/20 miles - this is a rural area) and there's no transport to go the grammar school from more than say 10 miles away. We have comps in our main city and satellite villages and grammars/sec mods in the market towns with some tiny bit of overlap in the odd village for transport/catchment, but barely any (depending on some parents willing to drive dcs 20 miles!) but also lots of parents/dcs who actively choose against grammar because I think at least half in our county are single sex and lots of parents don't want that for their dc.

To clarify and also help illustrate a point to OP, we live (just about) on the boundary for a grammar catchment but they are single sex ones and most parents (especially of girls) don't want their dcs to go single sex. Lots of very top level 5 dcs at ds's school don't pass the test (NVR/VR) each year because most parents want them to go to the comp and so don't let them do any practice (not sure why they let them take the exam but there you go!). They go to the comp, make up the top sets and get straight As. Equally, there are some dcs from other villages who have been really heavily coached to pass and are only level 4 and in some cases level 3 in one subject, who go and struggle (and make up the bottom sets).

It is not as black and white as it seems, in our area at least.

Our's isn't a 'Grammar school area' so to speak, we have two Grammar schools, superselective, one a Boys school, one a Girls school. I don't know the intake for the girls school (Grammar wasn't suitable for my DD with SN's), but the boys school has just 96 places.

There are usually 600+ applicants for those 96 places, this year there is likely to be more applicants per place as the Boys Grammar in the next town over has changed its admission criteria, and boys that would have applied there in the past are applying to the boys Grammar in our town this year, possibly 700+ applicants for 96 places this year.

All other DC's in our town go to Comprehensive schools, and lots fall well below the average for GCSE results, only two out of seven schools get above 35% A*-C grades including English and Maths.

The Grammar has had 100% meeting that criteria for the last 6 years, 99% before that, then back to 100% 8 years ago.

I am lucky in as much as the Comprehensive that is local to me has better results, and that he will have a sibling link there via DD, but their results hover around 60-ish percent with 5 A*-C's including Maths and English.

And they don't offer the same GCSE's as the Grammar.

I don't care if all 4 of my DC's end up at different Secondaries, provided each one is at the best Secondary for THEM.

And it also remains to be seen how well the local Secondary school deals with becoming an Academy as part of an Academy Consortium chain of 5 Academies in September, so they are a sort of unknown quantity again now, albeit one that I will have the 'inside story' on from DD.

I know that the SEN Dept there is suffering through Academisation already, so goodness knows how the help they used to give the brighter students through their G&T program is going to change...

In this school, a DC who is a solid level 5 at the end of Y5 is not going to get in if they aren't coached, as the test relies on them being at the level of a 12-13yo, all round, and knowing things that a state school will not teach until Y7/Y8.

Without coaching, no state school DC stands a chance.

But surely, Couthy, if the grammar school test is that difficult to pass, with so few places for the numbers who apply, then logic would dictate that lots of the children who fail to gain a place will be very high achievers, lots of high level 5 children must be going to some of the other local schools?

I agree that the schools you quoted with 30% 5A-Cs sound quite weak academically, but your most local one with over 60% sounds like it will have lots of high achievers in it. Have you looked it up on the DfE website where it breaks down the results per high attainer (which is basically level 5 at KS2 children) etc? Our local comp has similar headline results to this one you mention, but gets the highest average GCSE grade per high attainer (an A-) than either the grammar schools or the comps with a higher overall pass rate. They get plenty of straight A students at GCSE and A Level and lots of dcs off to really good unis/medicine/RAF etc etc. It's what they do with the high attainers that really matters for your situation and your ds's.

I hope your ds passes but also that if he doesn't, you can be reassured that it's not the end of the world:-)

The problem with the grammar school system is obviously the alternatives. Our local catchment school (aside from the two grammars) states in the prospectus that 14% of children get 5 A-Cs or equivalent at GCSE. Our alternatives are either faith schools (we are not C of E or RC) or extremely oversubscribed.

Ours is not a super selective area, but the grammar schools certainly cream off the high achievers.

Results mostly 'B/C's, not A's. very few get A's, maybe one in each year group gets a couple. The 60-ish percent is mainly made up of DC's like my DD, who has LD's, and is possible to just reach a 'C' grade. Not of tons of pupils getting a brace of A's. The majority get 5 'C's.