The school has decided DD is able to join their new G&T programme

[KatyMac]

They were told that last September............apparently she can have Yoga, nutritional information (always assuming she can get school lunch & eat it in 30 minutes) and other classes

She doesn't have time for school never mind anything extra

She has done BTEC Science & Dance this year and started Spanish & Geog

Next year she takes Spanish & Geog, an Option - Music & Eng Lang

Year 11 should be 3x Science,Eng Lit, RE, 2 more options (prob Drama & Business), Maths

I have persuaded them to let her drop RE & 1 science, but it was a struggle

As a secondary teacher I am struggling to get my head around 14 gcses. That is absolutely crazy. There is no benefit to it at all. 10 would be a good number to have. How on earth are they managing that? Even with, say, 2 for maths (Maths and Additional) and 2 for English (Language and Literature) how can they make up the rest? With 3 sciences, 1 or 2 Humanities and a foreign language you'd still only get to 8 or 9. How can they possibly be timetabling and teaching her (properly) for 14 (quality, not Mickey Mouse) subjects? Totally unreasonable and I hate to think what her exam schedule will be like. I would put my foot down and tell them no way. There is no educational benefit to this.

But the school will get more "8 GCSEs at grade c or above"

She does 20 hours out of school & can't keep up with her work

Dd (12 and year 8) will be doing 14 gcse's like her friends but doesn't do anything outside school. She is G&T but has never been given anything extra or special to do. Not in primary school and certainly not in high school. Your poor dd, KatyMac. She will have enough to do without the other stuff. And when you say she may only get B grades, don't worry about it. Dd's friends will also be taking 14 gcse's and i doubt one or two would even get B's. Good luck and best wishes.

It's not that I don't think she can do well, it's that I don't think she can do her best doing 14

She isn't G&T academically (although since doing all this dance her grades have moved up dramatically) but she is a good plodder& she does work hard. I would rather that effort go on 8 or 9 than 14 (well the 12 I have negociated)

The god thing that has come out of the G&T programme is that i now have someone else worrying about how much she eats (ie not enough), maintaining her weight and to enable growth. She is struggling to physically eat what she needs to in 4 or 5 meals a day

In my school we did 13 as standard, the normal 11 plus welsh as we are in wales and re as it was a church school. We had people in our year get all a grades, I got more average grades (1 a 7 a 5 b). I did that on top of plays in school, out of school musicals, army cadets, singing lessons, in school and county orchestras, clarinet and piano. If she is g and t 14 should not be a struggle even with extra activities. I certainly wasn't g and t just bright and hard working.

Sorry op x post with you. I clearly dont understand this g and t thing, if its not academic is doing 14 gcses standard these days? If not why does she have to do them if, like you say, she's not academically g and t.

Sorry but if children are doing 14 GCSEs they are either only just scraping through, they are mickey mouse subjects or the standard has really deteriorated.

'only just scraping through'

My point exactly

What do you mean by "mickey mouse subjects" mirry2? The subjects are compulsory subjects apart from 3 options at dd's school. I don't think she is doing any mickey mouse subjects. And i hope she won't be just scraping through either. She is a high achiever so she should be getting A in many of her gcse's, but then again she is only 12 and year 8 at the moment so its another 3 years. She has already got her maths gcse A and will be taking A level maths and she has done nvq German. So i don't class dd as a child who would be scraping through. Hope not anyway!

ibizagirl I don't think your DD and the OP's are in the same boat at all. Your DD sounds very academic and if that is what she wants to focus on then I'm sure doing 14 GCSEs is fine for her. FWIW though, at my interview for Oxford they were much more interested in what I'd done out of school. I reckon if you asked most admissions tutors they would say do 10 GCSEs and something really worthwhile extracurricularly.

The OP's DD is not particularly academically focussed, but is very talented in another area. To my mind a supportive school interested in the individual child's needs would be looking to streamline her studies so she can get a good clutch of qualifications, maximise her potential in dance AND not end up broken at the end of it!

"a supportive school interested in the individual child's needs would be looking to streamline her studies so she can get a good clutch of qualifications, maximise her potential in dance AND not end up broken at the end of it!"

EBDTeacher that's my exactly hope/worry

"not particularly academically focussed, but is very talented in another area"

& that is a lovely way of putting it.

We are having a meeting after half-term with the Sports G&T co-ordinator who despite not knowing much about dance is prepared to support DD and is concerned about her health, her psychological health, her diet and takes the possibility of burn out seriously

FWIW I would echo EBDTeacher regarding what admissions tutors are looking for (having years worth experience processing applications, advising on personal statements and prepping kids for interviews). Universities don't tend to score GCSE results past the best 10 anyway - I've been told that multiple times by Russell Group unis like oxbridge, warwick, manchester etc. It is way more important to get 10 good grades at A-B than to get 14 passes. Some Unis for example want a B in two sciences at GCSE on the first sitting (no resits) for medicine. I've had students with As in science at A level and grade 6 & 7 in Higher Level IB be told there is no point in applying because their GCSE results were not acceptable (eg. an A and a C instead of two Bs).

The only reason for any child sitting that many exams is if it is in the best interests of the child - not whether it helps a school in its league tables position. 14 exams spread over 2-3 years is a totally different prospect from 14 in one year, one sitting and no school can adequately timetable the teaching of that many subjects to the recommended exam board number of hours within a normal school day: you'd be talking 40+ hours in the school week.

There is also a huge difference between gaining a Level 1, 2 or 3 NVQ and sitting, say, the Cambridge GCSE curriculum. A difference universities are not oblivious to.

KatyMac - good luck with your meeting at school. It sounds as if you have a lot of underlying stress and worry regarding your DDs health. I sincerely hope you can get a more balanced and supportive approach from the school.

She should have 2 BTECs and 4 GCSEs by the end of year 10, which is OK - I guess it's just the extra 8 the year after!

She does 20.5 hours of dance a week, attends 16 hours of outside school activity and travels for 12.5 hours to get to the classes, so in addition to attending school she is tied-up for 28.5 hours a week; it's no wonder she struggles with her coursework. I'd barely keep awake at that level of activity!

I just don't think any sensible person would do both! & as dance is her career I wonder if 3 GCSEs next year and 6 the year after might be more sensible

But that leaves 5.5 hours a week (year 10 and 6.5 year 11) un-timetabled and that is apparently an issue for the school

One reason schools have issues with children reducing their time table too much is the skepticism they have over the possibility of a child being successful in a non-academic arena like Dance. In other words they probably want her to get as many qualifications as possible in case she doesn't 'make it'. I know that has been the attitude of schools I have worked in with children convinced they will be the next great footballer, rock star or actor. And I do not mean that to sound disparaging or cynical about your DDs ability. However, ultimately the school must work in partnership with you, especially if your DD is starting to buckle a bit under the stress of such a busy and physically demanding schedule.

Have the school explained why they have an issue with her being untimetabled? Are they afraid it will trigger a slew of similar demands? If so that is, frankly, their problem not yours and should not be used as a reason to deny your DD a more appropriate curriculum. Is it a question of supervision and the legal ramifications of that? If so is there some kind of compromise you are able to reach such as hiring a tutor to come to the school and work with her on her weaker subject areas during her non contact time? Are there any precedents in previous years for children having further reductions in their timetables? Also you mentioned previously that she will transfer to a specialist dance academy in the future: is there any benefit or possibility in pursuing that earlier or having her use her non-timetabled secondary time to work on another curriculum?

Good luck - hope you can work something more manageable out. There is a hell of a lot more to life than grinding your way through a bunch of exams.

Thanks - I understand you first point totally & if I were asking for her to do 5 GCSEs I would agree; but with my plan she would still get 2 BTECs & 9 GCSEs which is a fairly respectable target - she will meet the EBacc unless there is a necessity to take all the 5 at once. ATM she is doing fine and actually achieving more than she did before this crazy schedule appeared but who knows what will happen in the future

Longterm she wants to teach - & Eng, Maths a language & a science included in 8 GCSEs will be fine I understand