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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

How unusual is this - just good memory or something else?

28 replies

AmbrosiaAndNectar · 04/04/2012 22:18

I'm probably posting in the wrong place, as I am really not sure whether this is anything especially unusual, but here goes...

My DS is 25 months. He can count (the highest I heard him count was up to 34) and understands the concept of counting; for example, if I give him 6 grapes and ask him how many, he will count them with his finger and give me the correct answer. He recognises numbers up to ten, and is beginning to recognise double figure numbers beyond that. He recognises all the letters (both big and small), including the letter names and the sounds of each letter. He started recognising letters at around 15 months or so - it started with 's' and 'm' and went from there really. He can recognise a handful of words (whole word recognition) but also seems to be 'getting' the concept of reading, in that he appears to understand that sounds run together make words. He hugely enjoys me making a word for him with wooden lettings, and gets very excited when he is able to decipher a word. This will usually be prompted in the sense that I ask him to sound out the letter sounds of each word, which he does correctly, and then we sound them out again in a row, and he is often able to run them together and get a word (at which point he is overjoyed, running his finger along the word and happily saying "This word says cat!").

He has known colours for about 12 months now, but in the last few months differentiates between light and dark colours, e.g. dark green and light blue. In the last few days, he's really enjoyed me doing addition using my fingers as guidance (e.g. 2 plus 1 = 3). When asked today on a whim, he was able to correctly give me the answers of the following sums: 2 + 1, 1 + 1, 5 + 1, and 2 + 2.

He knows all his shapes, including some more unusual ones like parallelogram, semi-circle and trapezium. He likes the fact that shapes can be put together to make a different shape. For instance, today he put together two apple semi-circles and said "two semi-circles makes a circle". He also seems quite imaginative, saying things like "Mummy's mole is a bit like a bubble" (thanks DS!) and that my tied shoelace looked a "bit like a dragonfly" (it had fallen in the shape of a dragonfly). He is able to do pretend play, like cooking/pouring tea, and also likes to pretend he himself is something, usually a car. I use this method to speed him up when walking, by encouraging him to pretend to be a racing car and go really fast.

He started talking pretty early and he has been speaking in full sentences for a while now, although he struggles with pronouns, often saying things like "you bumped your head" or "you want to go and play trains" when he means himself. He is beginning to use "I", "me" and "my" a bit more now, and always does so if reminded.

He is not obsessed by anything, but enjoys doing puzzles. He happily does unfamiliar 25 piece puzzles all by himself with no help from me, and he can do a 50 piece that he is more familiar with. Larger puzzles he still likes, but wants help with. He adores cars, trains and diggers, but seems to have a general interest in most things - lately he has been enjoying learning the names of different flowers, such as dandelions, daisies, pansies, roses etc, and likes pointing them out when we are out and about.

From a physical perspective, he started walking at 11 months but didn't start running properly until a good 7 months after that. He's still not as physical as some of his peers and still falls over a good deal. When he runs in wide open spaces, he has a tendency to run with arms flailing, his balance all over the place. In small spaces, however, his balance seems really good (he loves the balance bars in playgrounds). I've been working hard to take him out a lot to the park and soft play to build up his core strength a bit, which seems to be helping.

He's very, very loving and adores cuddles and kisses. His sleeping has never been great and he still co-sleeps. He gets terribly upset by people being sad - in real life, books, TV, you name it. Every time he watches Thomas, and Thomas or one of the other engines inevitably gets sad about something, DS gets a bit upset and says "make Thomas happy again!". Today when DS hit me (he is going through a hitting phase) I had a sad face on, and he got terribly upset and after saying sorry, he tried to pull the corners of my mouth into a smile. He has taken to giving other children and adults big cheesy gurns smiles, because about a week ago I told him that smiling makes other people happy. Prior to this, he has not been massively social, preferring to play alongside (albeit closely) rather than with other children.

Do any of these things point to anything I should be worried about, like Asperger's? I have been hesitant to post, because every time somebody posts something like this, there are always replies suggesting something might be wrong. Is it possible to tell if a child has Asperger's at this point? Are there any signs I should look out for? Sorry for the long post.

OP posts:
FunnysInLaJardin · 04/04/2012 22:23

No idea about Aspergers etc, but he sounds very bright to me. My DC are of average intelligence and DS2 who is 2.2 can't do any of that. He did walk at 9 months though and ran at about 11 months

FunnysInLaJardin · 04/04/2012 22:24

oh sorry have just realised this is in G&T, not my natural stamping ground at all what with having average DC. No doubt other with actual G&T DC will be along shortly.

I do like a good G&T mind you!

BCBG · 04/04/2012 22:27

Sorry, not an expert, but one of my four DCs (now 18) is exceptionally gifted academically. Your DS sounds a lovely, bright toddler tbh - Aspergers etc would be more likely to produce a lack of empathy whereas from your description your Ds empathises well, and normally. Playing alongside rather than with other children at this stage is absolutely age appropriate. It sounds as though he benefits from having lots of input from you, is a quick learner, and is likely to be very bright academically. the best thing you can do is to stop worrying, make sure he has a good and well rounded play/social life, and let him continue to develop at his own pace. Enjoy it!

IHeartKingThistle · 04/04/2012 22:28

My 2.7 yr old can't do that stuff either. I bet he can scream louder than yours though Grin

He sounds fab!

lancelottie · 04/04/2012 22:28

I diagnose Fab Kid. Honestly, he sounds just gorgeous.

He also sounds somewhat like both my (non-ASD) daughter and my (definitely ASD) older boy at a similar age -- both of them a little clumsy, not over-engaged socially, fearsomely bright and talkative.

My other son was right in there with any available toddlers, recklessly flinging himself over playground equipment and off high surfaces, which came as a bit of a shock after his brother's more cautious approach to life.

Sorry, that isn't much help! Alarm bells are not ringing loudly, shall we say (and anyway, as one of my son's teachers once said, 'I'd rather have your DS than half the class, for all his problems, in fact I'd rather have a classfull of little DSs some days!)

Plaguegroup · 04/04/2012 22:33

I don't think so, he sounds very bright and well within the normal range socially, most children don't really play together until 3 or 4 (although DS1 had some friends who started a lot earlier which made me paranoid about him).

Worrying about others' feelings the way he does also makes it sound like he has lots of empathy.

I can't see anything in your OP which sounds worrying, is there another reason why you are concerned?

pinkyp · 04/04/2012 22:35

Personally you haven't said anything that I'd think was aspergers (not a professional just a mum). I suspect my ds has aspergers as he has social and behaviour issues.

I can't believe your ds knew all the colours at 13months, my 16 month can't talk yet Blush he could run at 11 months tho Wink

blackeyedsusan · 04/04/2012 22:56

www.nagcbritain.org.uk/index.php

longingforsomesleep · 05/04/2012 00:35

Ambrosia - my youngest was very advanced with numbers and reading. He could read books like Kipper and Percy the Park Keeper before he was 3. When he started nursery the nursery teacher said she'd tested him on all the key words for KS1 and KS2 and he knew them all. He also delighted in learning the names of things - such as flowers. He knew the names of most of the bones in the body around age 3 - and things like proximal interphalangeal joint, not just radius and ulna!!

He coasted through primary, top in everything, except writing which he nevertheless did very well in. He passed the 11+ with a very high score and is now in his second year at a grammar school where they are becoming increasingly frustrated by his laziness in subjects and things (such as any form of homework) which don't interest him. One of the penalties I think of having found things so easy is that he's never got into the habit of working hard. His older brother, who is nowhere near as clever, gets very good results because he is very competitive and is prepared to put a lot of effort in. Be warned!

Tiggles · 05/04/2012 10:30

I have 3 sons - eldest (9) has severe AS, middle (5) has HFA and youngest (3) is NT (odd AS traits). All are very bright.

Your DS sounds in some ways like both my eldest and youngest, but possibly more like my youngest. Both DSs1 and 3 recognised letters, shapes, colours (even obscurer ones like turquoise) etc early. Spoke early in sentences. Did sums early.

However, DS1 had obsessions from a very early age. At 18 months he was obsessed by food - he had to know how his body digested something - which enzymes etc, why it was useful to his body, before he ate ANYthing.

By 2 he was obsessed by history - an obsession he still has to a point, although by about age 7 this was being replaced by Star Wars.

Before he was 2 he was also obsessed by letters - he couldn't eat a yogurt without HAVING to know what ALL the writing on it said, couldn't walk past a sign without HAVING to know what it said.

By 12 months if we took a different route home from mums and tots e.g. to get petrol he threw amazing tantrums.

He still at 9 doesn't show any empathy, e.g. he can be jumping on trampoline, younger brother falls and hurts himself so cries and instead of stopping and helping he will keep jumping whilst screaming at his brother to shut up as he doesn't like the noise.

At 2/3 he was very into action man but he 'played' the same game each time i.e. laid out all their equipment in a 'shop'. One action man came in and bought all equipment. Start game again. No dressing action man up in equipment and actually using it. He would 'act out' situations but not actually imaginative play e.g. we used to go to a cafe, he would act out that I was the waitress, he would order his food - always the same food, I had to always say exactly the same words etc.

Would happily talk to people with his back to them if they happened to start talking to him when he was facing in that direction e.g. if he was walking away/running off to start with. He still doesn't make eye contact, but at least looks in the right direction!

DS3 on the other hand likes letters and learning them but doesn't have the obsession with letters.

Appears obsessed with horses and starwars but can be focussed onto other things.

Shows empathy e.g notices when I am sad.

Actually looks at you to check that you are interested in what he is saying and looking where he is pointing.

Plays with his toys. He can pretend that a toy phone is a real phone and pretend to talk into it (DS1 only started doing this age 8 - copying DS3!), age 2 he would take a big spoon and pretend it is a guitar (DS1 wouldn't have any idea why that might be fun)

Hope that helps.

Betelguese · 05/04/2012 18:50

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lancelottie · 05/04/2012 19:47

We-ell, maybe. Or maybe he, and his parents, should just think themselves lucky?

Frankly, it beats struggling-at-everything, I'd say.

Betelguese · 05/04/2012 22:42

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EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog · 06/04/2012 19:29

It is possible to have AS traits and be gifted at the same time - it is a spectrum after all. My DD (now 7) fits into this category.

By the sound of it you have an absolutely FAB Kid indeed - congratulations! Grin The only AS symptom that jumps out at me is the "confusing pronouns" issue, I would say just keep an eye on the social side of things and seek support if needed. I find it changes a lot as they grow older.

And investigate education, as suggested above. The NAGC are a great resource.

You sound like a switched-on, level-headed mum with a great little DS :) You'll both be fine I'm sure!

EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog · 06/04/2012 19:33

Lancelottie - I can understand why you'd say something like that, but I can assure you, you have the wrong idea about what G&T actually means. It's not a free ticket to an effortless life - often quite the opposite. Your comment was rather insensitive to those of us who are struggling.

ragged · 06/04/2012 19:42

he sounds verbally advanced and totally normal otherwise. Cannot figure out why OP brought Asperger's into the picture.

FannyFifer · 06/04/2012 20:10

Sounds quite like my dd who is 26 months. She has always spoken in sentences, loves counting, counts going up and down stairs, she can add very simple things.

Loves colours, knows light & dark shades etc, likes her shapes as well.

She is streets ahead of her brother at the same age.

Playing alongside but not with other children is totally normal at that age.

DD try's to get other children to play with her but they usually won't, she enjoys playing with her brother.

He sounds like a great wee chap you have. Enjoy him & don't be worrying.

FannyFifer · 06/04/2012 20:15

Just realised this is in gifted and talented, ooops, on phone and only read heading.
Would not consider my DD either gifted or talented.

AmbrosiaAndNectar · 06/04/2012 21:16

Thank you so much for your replies (and sorry for the lateness of mine). It?s good to hear that the general consensus is that he seems to be NT at the moment.

IHeartKingThistle ? Grin possibly not, but he has definitely perfected a high-pitched whine that sets your teeth on edge when he wants something!

I don?t think there is anything in particular about him that is worrying me. He can be a little odd/silly at times, but then surely so can all toddlers. The reason I brought Asperger?s into the equation is that there are three probable AS members of my DH?s family, so I?ve been looking out for warning signs from fairly early on, because if he does then I know early intervention will give him the best chance for the future.

Regarding DS, because he?s my first, I have no experience of how a child acquires language. A lot of what he says is phrases that I say. For example, he was walking over some cushion ?stepping stones? I?d put on the carpet for him and I said ?you?re getting good at that!?. When he did it again, he said proudly ?You?re getting good at that!? rather than convert it to ?I?m getting good at that?. I asked him what DS should say (I did congratulate him, in case anyone things I?m being mean!) and he did then correct himself with ?I?m getting good at that?, but it?s taking a while to truly click with him. It?s only more recently that he has been constructing more complex sentences without having heard me say them first, such as when he saw a picture of a modern train: ?The train doesn?t got pistons? (he adores steam trains and learning about how they work), or ?I not want to go to sleep?. These grammatically incorrect, and very cute, toddler-style phrases were the sort of thing I was expecting from when he started talking, rather than grammatically correct repeating of phrases. I suppose it got me a bit concerned, which is why I asked whether this was down to purely good memory. I did read somewhere that difficulty with differentiating between ?I? and ?You? can be a trait found in children on the autistic spectrum ? EyeofNewtToeofFrog has confirmed this.

Thank you for the link, Blackeyedsusan, I will have a look; that site looks really useful, although my guess is that he is just developing certain things more quickly and that maybe his rate of development will slow down as he gets older.

Longingforsomesleep ? very interesting post! I was put a year ahead in primary (although not gifted and talented, and not nearly as advanced as your boy), and coasted through relatively easily. However, I?m an awful procrastinator and always left things like homework to the last possible moment. I am also a terrible loser, and if there was something I wasn?t very good at, then I?d avoid it wherever possible. DH, on the other hand, worked very hard at school and achieved good results after some initial difficulties. Career-wise, he has achieved far more than me.

LittleMissGreen, thank you so much. Your post is so helpful, especially where you compare the intensity of obsession experienced by your elder DS with your youngest (they both sound wonderful, by the way). I think my DS is sounding more like your youngest at the moment. He?s quite happy to pretend things are something else, such as a biscuit is a car which ?vrooms? along the table, or a plate is a wheel that rolls along the floor. He also was looking at a picture of a jungle in a book this morning, pointed at a leaf and said ?a snake is hiding behind the leaf?. Similarly there is a book with pictures of presents in, and he likes to tell me what is inside: a Toyota racing car, of all things! He doesn?t have a toy one of these, so it?s something he?s made up.

His main obsession is cars, and he knows and recognises all the makes (25 or more?), which makes crossing the road difficult when he is frantically gesticulating at the traffic going ?A Porsche! This one is a Porsche! I like this one!? However, if I take him away from something he is interested in, he is relatively easily distractible providing he?s moving to a similarly interesting/appealing activity. He does like to go certain ways, yelling ?go up the hill!? (the playground is that way) but he usually calms when I explain why we are going the other way(e.g. ?We have to get some food from the shops. We can go up the hill to the playground on the way back.?

Anyway, thank you again for the help. I put this in gifted and talented mainly because I thought there would be more people in this topic who could offer help and not suspect me of being just another overly boastful mother desperate to label her child gifted and talented (really and truly not the case), and also, although probably irrelevant, because there is a highly academic member of my family who would have been classed as gifted in the scientific field had the register existed in his time.

Anyway, regarding DS, my feeling is that he?s a lovely little boy who is developing normally, and I?m having a lot of fun with him. Although I?m sure the neighbours didn?t think him so lovely when he had an almighty tantrum at 6am this morning! ;)

OP posts:
lancelottie · 06/04/2012 22:32

Insensitive, Eye? Maybe. DS struggles a lot less with the gifted side of his personal burden than with the disabled side, though, and as a freakily bright kid myself back in the day, I can safely say I was merely unbearably smug about it [bublush].

Could you be being oversensitive, do you think, if you see 'struggling' as less of a burden than being gifted?

Betelguese · 06/04/2012 23:35

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Betelguese · 06/04/2012 23:53

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lancelottie · 07/04/2012 22:30

Just re-read Eye's post, and I see that you are struggling yourself with a gifted child. I'm sorry. Shouldn't post at stupid o'clock.

Betelguese · 08/04/2012 20:55

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acebaby · 09/04/2012 19:17

He sounds terrific, and very like my ds1 at that age. Ds1 is 6 now and has turned out to be 'gifted' (although I don't like that term). I don't know much about AS, but none of ds1's teachers have raised any concerns. The pronoun thing is really common, and both mine got quite mixed up at your ds's age (eg me: 'I have a sore leg'. Ds1: 'no I do NOT have a sore leg' followed by massive meltdown). Their speech is fine now.