What's wrong with telling a child they're "gifted"

[EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog]

Just wondering, really.

I know most people are dead against it, but how do parents then explain to DC why they are so different from their peers? The kids are not stupid (by definition!) :o so they are aware of being different/academically miles ahead.

giftedkids.about.com/od/6/f/faq_behavior.htm

Mrsshears,
I read the matertial.
That's really worring if THIS hapened on a gifted child who was not challenged at school at all for long time. Have you ever been going through this sort of situation?

I found my boys :Always tring to sort out a simple question in different ways; Seeing something(for example: picture, pattern, number, words, foreign letters) then quickly link it to something else as if they are seeing a different thing; Feeling quite grown up by helping/teaching others ,etc.

I can never expect school to meet my children's individual need. I am trying to persuade myself to find a solution from my side.

Things like this will happen all the time.

Curious my gifted son was a nightmare at secondary school for his teachers even though at home he had always (and even in primary) been fantastically well behaved. Ds simply had too much thinking time and so set about disrupting the system. He watched how things worked and used his considerable talents to throw spanners in the works. So he worked out the free school meals system and gave all his mates free school meals. He worked out how to override he printer limits and printed hundreds of posters that he put up around the school declaring "missing in action...an education" on the OFSTED visit.He took over the positive referral slips system to ensure his class got the rewards. He'd entertain himself by sending classes moving round the school by telling them that the works department needed the room empty. He'd get his friends out of class to play football in the gym when he knew it was empty there were hundreds of incidents. He'd book detentions three week in advance because he had so many but the duty manager would dismiss him within ten minutes because she couldn't cope as he'd whip up the kids to a frenzy.
He had hero status amongst his peers and the only reason he wasn't suspended or excluded is because the school liked to report his achievements and knew I'd remove him rather than him having an exclusion.

Gifted is no way "top 1% of the population"

That is LOADS of people.

You really think the entire top percentile (at any given thing) should be considered "gifted" at it?

I was comfortably top 1% academically through school, and I was very bright, but no way was I gifted.

Gifted means an exceptional talent (as larry has said) not just bright kids who are smarter than all the other kids in school/town.

Also giftedness refers to one ability - music, art, maths, languages, whatever - not just general exceptional cleverness.

There was a smarter girl than me at school, and she wasn't gifted either, although very, very clever. We both worked hard too. We're still friends and she's very highly qualified, very bright woman. I don't think being called gifted (which would have been a lie) would have done either of us any favours.

Neither of my parents (educators both) would have allowed it anyway. My mother, in particular can't stand the labelling of small children as gifted. My Dad always stressed that being clever was good luck, as wad growing up in a home where I was supported in my education. I was rewarded for effort. Never for being clever (or worse, moaning about being bored )

If a child has got an obvious gift for something, then they should be encouraged and supported in doing it. But they shouldn't be pushed to flatter parental vanity, and they shouldn't be set aside from other children so that their social skills are not developed.

I have a friend who was gifted at maths and pushed at it. He went to college at 12 or 13 to do a maths degree, and he stayed there ding various masters etc for most of his adolescence. The advantage to him of doing this over the other maths students I know who were not labelled as gifted but just went through school at hit college at 18? None, as far as I can tell.

And socially, it hurt him. It's taken him years to catch up to where he should have been.

As for bunching gifted together with talented?

Aaaaaargrgtgtgrgh!

Everyone has talents. Part of education is uncovering and developing those talents.

Just labelling the top 5% of your school as the talented ones (implying the rest are not) is such lazy, uncritical shite. I can't believe schools go along with it.

Sounds less like your son had exceptional talents than that he went to an exceptionally bad school that treated bog-standard teenage naughtiness as an achievement.

Ugh.

Was a poor school although OFSTED rated good. Was exceptional as offered exceptional funding for university, still exceptional as he works for Local Government leading a team of graduates ten years his senior and is tipped for the top. Just a bored and unchallenged and very creative teen at senior school who enjoyed the drama and the hero worship of his peers.

I think that the label 'gifted' is not something that you should give a child. My DD knows that she finds work easier than others in her class and is grateful for this.

It is funny. When I do various IQ tests I come out around 142-148. That puts me on about the 99.8th centile. I went to Cambridge studying a "hard science". However, there is no way that I would consider myself gifted. There were a few genuinely gifted people at Cambridge whom I assume went on to do original work. I don't see the point in attaching it to anyone else. Also, if you are bright enough, surely you can be self motivated? There are a few people who seem to get bored and suffer because they are a long way ahead and I guess the school should allow them to work separately. However, "gifted" does not seem to me to be a problem in the same way as someone who is slower than everyone else. Surely, being "gifted" is what is says on the packet: a gift and not a handicap.

" "gifted" does not seem to me to be a problem in the same way as someone who is slower than everyone else. Surely, being "gifted" is what is says on the packet: a gift and not a handicap."

Absolutely

I think it can be a bit of both really athinginyourlife
It's the extra bits that come with giftedness such as the overexciteabilities etc that can cause the problems,i have read that these added extras become more likely the higher the IQ gets.

I don't think they necessarily become more likely the higher your IQ - many of the overexciteabilities suffered by "gifted" people are also common in people with lower than average IQs and as part of the symptoms of people with anxiety disorders, aspergers, dyspraxia, dyslexia, etc. They are just a range of symptoms common in people who have difficulties in their daily life for one reason or another. Some of those people happen to be very bright, or even "gifted". The bright ones without those problems are far, far less likely to have IQ tests, so it's hard to tell what the actual statistics are.

Insanityscratching,
Sounds like serverl things are going on, particular the hero worship is an extreme powerforce among young teenagers.

I am not a persuative person, but I am trying to persuade you to find a solution from our parents side(Don't get me wrong. I mean of course we want school do realize that they need to challenge him to occupy his mind.)

Try to talk your DS,really talk to him, listen to him why he is doing this when clearly he know for sure this break the rule;Try to help him to find a way to deal with the boredom , what can we do in THIS situation?Try not to take other people/school 's bad teaching as an excuse for our own bad hehaviour, which wil only devalue ourselves... Try to highlight the importance of being sensible ,as important as acdamic.

I believe there are many things we can't change, but we can at least change our attitude, and that is the start to change everything.

AThingInYourLife
I absolutely agree with what you said.Many people use 99%,99.6%,99.9% to prove how gifted they are, then I am speechless.The precious word was sold cheap.

Quite right mrsshears - there are huge amounts of issues that typically come with a high IQ (don't believe me - then google is your friend), which mean that a gifted child is not necessarily able to fulfill their potential without lots of support - just like kids at the other end of the learning ability spectrum.

Having an IQ in the gifted category does NOT automatically give you emotional maturity or an automatic motivation to succeed at school or in life. Nor does it give you adequate organisational skills, study skills, or even social skills to make you successful at school. My DD1, for example, really struggles with something called Executive Function (google is your friend again) - which means AOT that she finds it incredibly hard to deal with emotional problems maturely. Hence lots of problems at school and less than desirable behaviour.

What high IQ also does not mean is an automatically great, successful future. (Quite the contrary in many cases.) It just means you have "high learning potential", the last being the operative word.

And surely it's easier to motivate yourself to work hard and not lose your confidence in your abilities (especially if you're a girl, especially if you're emotionally immature and lack confidence in your abilities in other areas), if you know you definitely have the potential to do well? Surely it's easier to talk to a child about the importance of hard work and open their eyes to the possibilities they have?

I would also like to point out that telling your child about their potential is not the same as broadcasting it from the rooftops to the whole neighbourhood! As far as I'm concerned it's her business, not anyone else's. I can control how much pressure is placed on her by us, her family (which is as little as possible) - so why would I want anyone else putting pressure on her to succeed by commenting on it?

Athing - which/whose definitions of giftedness are you referring to please? Your ideas of giftedness seem very different from everything I have read on the subject.

ragged - apologies if I have given the false impression that I know what "bright" means - I haven't got a clue! you're right, it's much more impossible to define than G&T.

iggly2 - you're right, there is no way of telling how any of us would have turned out if we had had a different self-image growing up. All I know is that my friend's giftedness (and the issues that went with it) went unsupported and unrecognised throughout their childhood, and the results were not positive. I'm trying to do better for my DD1.

Mytholmroyd - I love your story, and I'm very happy for you & your singing DD :) I can fully relate to your experience. There's something about external recognition that gives a child who lacks confidence much-needed hope and self-esteem.

ummm...'much more DIFFICULT to define' obviously....

Thanks OP! Have no idea where it came from as I sing like a strangled cat!

"Just wondering, really."

Doesn't sound like you are wondering at all. In fact, it seems you have come on here to lecture others on how to deal with the issue.

Please remember, though, the gifted label can become a curse for those who excel early but end up quite ordinary later. I have known a few like that.

'Having an IQ in the gifted category does NOT automatically give you emotional maturity or an automatic motivation to succeed at school or in life. Nor does it give you adequate organisational skills, study skills, or even social skills to make you successful at school.'
Having an IQ in the gifted category does NOT automatically give youWhich means high IQ NOT equal to gifted.

Should school take a IQ test for all the children, then differentiate the work base on the result?

Mytholmroyd - who cares where it comes, just enjoy the results and the relief your DD has found an area of confidence

larrygrylls - LOL, I'm afraid you may have a point there ooops! Just because there is a love of arguing debating in my family, I ought to remember that I now live in the UK where this is not good manners :) Sorry, the intention was not to lecture, I am genuinely interested in everyone's opinions and was wondering what people's reasons were. It's just that I'm yet to be convinced that the collective opinion has it right

curious - there may be a language issue here (I can understand, I do not speak English as a native speaker either). An IQ in the 'gifted range' is simply standard terminology. Have a look at this link IQ categories for example. (I was childishly pleased to find that there is also an official definition of "imbecile" at the other end of the scale - it started out as a medical term and subsequently became a derogatory term in colloquial language! But I digress.)

Obviously, a mere IQ score is the narrowest way of defining someone as a person, and isn't a very useful indicator of success in life. It does not say anything about that person's motivations, ambitions, other talents or weaknesses. But, handled correctly, it clearly gives someone a huge potential to do well. And it's precisely because of this potential that I think it's helpful to discuss it openly and realistically with the child.

And knowing what I know about the gifted people I've met throughout my life, it just seems to me that sweeping the issue under the carpet (i.e. not supporting the special challenges giftedness brings) is not handling it correctly at all. But that's just my opinion, obviously!

curious - that's a really interesting idea about assessing all children to see where their strengths and weaknesses lay, and what their best learning styles are. It would quite possibly help avoid problems that go undetected for years! :)

It's not just an IQ test that would be required though, you'd need a full cognitive profile (processing speed, visual memory, short term memory, etc) with maybe tests for dyslexia, dyspraxia, sensory processing disorders, autistic spectrum disorders and so on.

Back in the real world though, that might be a little bit impractical and expensive for the LEAs to implement!!

My DD is gifted in all academic subjects at school.

She knows she is way ahead of the other children in her class, she is currently in year 3 but could easily finish year 6 top of the class according to her teacher and head teacher.

Her school teacher explained to her that her brain is a sponge and she just absorbs information quicker and easier than others. She also kindly explained that the other kids in her class arent dumb or stupid but talented in other areas such as art and sport.
Its actually quite a burden for me as a mother of an exceptionally gifted child. I feel i have to constantly learn and research things...

When i first found out about DD i was overwhelmed but now i have time to digest it i am incredibly proud and feel its my duty to help her in any way I can. She wants to learn, has the desire and the urge therefore i am going to help her...but take her lead.

Since one person with a high IQ can have "gifted behaviours" (for want of a better expression!) and another person with a higher IQ can have none of those inconvenient difficulties/gifted behaviours, it stands to reason that giftedness is NOT just about IQ. Maybe it would be better only to refer to children as gifted if in fact they have the problems that can go alongside high IQ, rather than referring to them as gifted just because they have a very high IQ. But then that would make the term "gifted" extremely silly, as it is describing the bits that are in no way a pleasant gift as "gifted." Perhaps, just as one cluster of behaviours can be called "aspergers" after the name of the person who discovered it, "giftedness" should be given a new designation which has no connotations that can be easily misunderstood by the general public, who all assume that gifted means unusually clever and therefore have absolutely no sympathy for the tortured genius.... How about EyeOfNewtism? Or Rabbitstewism?

rosie - that's great to hear that your DD is doing extremely well :) well done to you for supporting her to the best of your abilities. I agree that having a child who is 'different' is a worry and bringing them up definitely feels like a burden at times!

rabbitstew LOL - I love 'Rabbitstewism' !!! It's comforting in a quirky sort of a way, I think we're onto something here! :) (I'd love to hear how you chose your screen name, btw) You do have a good point that giftedness is not just about a high IQ - except that an IQ over 130 is called 'gifted' (and 'highly gifted', 'exceptionally gifted', 'profoundly gifted', etc) on the WISC! So no wonder it's such a confusing term - most people seem to have very different, and very definite, ideas of what giftedness is and isn't.

And yes, 'gifted children' (for want of a better expression!) are pretty misunderstood even at the best of times - it really is like your child has a completely invisible syndrome that only a handful of specialists and a few thousand (?) parents understand. (Oh, and the NAGC of course!).

Not to mention kids who are twice exceptional.....

Eye of Newt: "And knowing what I know about the gifted people I've met throughout my life, it just seems to me that sweeping the issue under the carpet (i.e. not supporting the special challenges giftedness brings) is not handling it correctly at all. But that's just my opinion, obviously!"

I am not talking about sweeping issues under the carpet but just not using terminology and a word that few people agree on a definition as a label for a child.

an "IQ in the gifted range" does not fulfil the definition of "gifted" that a lot of people agree or think of "gifted" meaning and this is the problem. It can just mean they are good at doing IQ tests, or if the test was taken very young were precocious at the time.

Also:" And yes, 'gifted children' (for want of a better expression!) are pretty misunderstood even at the best of times - it really is like your child has a completely invisible syndrome that only a handful of specialists and a few thousand (?) parents understand. (Oh, and the NAGC of course!). " but if it is the ridiculous top 2% that the NAGC and psychologists quote as gifted then that is LOADS of people (that's more than 2 per every year group at most secondary schools! or 20 in a selective grammar). I know so many through work/friends/school that are in the top 2% group but are they "gifted"...maybe only 1 (and he may not be the top 0.001% on an IQ test or even among the highest scoring despite being amazing at what he does). He also doesn't know it.

I do not think anyones minds are being changed, but it is fun debating.

I dont actually believe its easy for a child to be "gifted" so to speak, its very hard on them emotionally. My DD is constantly working and doesnt play as much as I believe a child should. Last night for example she HAD to do her research of Ancient Egypy for school, school havent asked her to do any extra work but she feels she has to. If she gets something wrong or doesnt understand it she feels like she has failed in life, yet she finds it hard to understand that yes she may not get an advanced question correct but she will get the standard questions correct.
She also has issues shutting down her brain at night time and finds it difficult to sleep unless she has done her reading. She suffers from stress because she puts so much pressure on herself which causes headaches etc.

As people on here suggested she does other activities ie swimming, gymnastics, gardening etc but to her its just time away from the books.

Her major talent is understanding the english language.

If she sets herself a target to achieve she will achieve it and more so she will understand it.

I personally dont understand it all.