Y1 very ahead or not?

[strictlovingmum]

DD (5.4) in Y1 currently, able and hard working girl, I know it and DD's teacher confirmed it at the October parents evening, but that is it.
DD steadily moved up reading levels now at the purple, sound reading ability, at home will happily read other materials and her favourite poems.
DD has a very mature handwriting, seldom makes spelling mistakes, had her christmas story displayed in the school corridor, it was of a very good standard.
In numeracy DD does excel, mentally will add any two digit numbers, will subtract mentally up to 20, and knows times tables multiplying with 2,4 and 5, what confuses me is following;
Roll on, December interim report states Literacy B working within expected level, Numeracy B working within the expected level (DD needs to be able to recall her addition and subtraction up to 10 mentally), DD can do this in her sleep.
My question is,
Does DD's teacher have very high standards and expectations, or perhaps she just not getting DD at all?, DD's class is very small in non selective independent school.
I am not interested in school acknowledging DD's intellect ( I know breadth of her knowledge), But am I right in thinking that it would be useful if school could tailor more challenging work for her?, Is it unreasonable to expect that form school?
And lastly, why B's in her report?
I can't help but feel DD has been short changed a little bit

TIA

No offend to anybody, just when you think your child wasnot taken seriouly as 'gifted' , think about there are always better children out somewhere, more able, more 'gifted'.
I believe there are dozens y1 children are work on level 4b+().Our National expected level is extremly low.

With respect curiousmind its not really about other children being better or more able,it's about parents wanting appropriate challenges/education for their particulair child.

Agree with you mrsshears.

"National expected level is extremly low." I could not agree more . Children are capable of so much more.

Certain subjects I think the AVERAGE child could get very good GCSE grades in prior to leaving primary school given the opportunity. I also think though in allowing this to happen that other aspects (eg social) maybe overlooked. I also think that teacher to pupils ratio may well have to be increased and that when costs are involved in this country the young are not deemed worth it .

If your child is looking at 3b in maths by the end of year 1 and is expected to make around one and a half to two sublevels of progress a year then they will be boarder line level 4 by the end of year 2. This is high.
They will most likely be classed as level 3 with no sub level at KS1.

Some random observations take what you want from them.........

I was also told that the dcs had to do everything 100percent of the time to be given a certain level 1a 1b etc

I was once verbally told that dc was top of the class (not hard very mixed inner London state primary) yet written report was a bit less than I expected, so I asked the teacher who said 'yes still top of the class progressing etc etc but we're not allowed to write that!!!!!'

Finally the gifted and talented at that stage had nothing to do with who was good at what and everything to do with whose mother was continually hanging around the school 'helping' all the time

I am sure there are dozens of children working at 4b out there but probably not in every subject across the board, for instance my DS is exceptional at reading and has a reading age double his age and has done since he was 3 however he is only a small amount above average for numeracy, he is gifted at reading and writing but if because he is only gifted in one area does this mean he is not G&T - who knows and in all honestly I couldn't care less.

Just because there may be be more gifted children out there doesn't mean your child isn't gifted, I don't really understand you comment curiousmind - does this mean that if your child is struggling and behind it is fine not to recognise it because there is always someone more behind and struggling more? I'm not being funny or anything - just curious to know what you meant if it wasn't to offend?

I do believe the average is low but what you have to remember that for every child who may be looking at level 3's at KS1 sats there are the same number of children at least who are struggling in level 1.

Why are people so cruel towards parents of gifted children - they still are included within SEN and still need additional help, just in a different way as the other end of the scale. People need to be more supportive of each other!

I agree lou2321, both ends of spectrum are extreme and are classified as SEN, I do believe however DD's teacher formulated DD very well, lazy trait and I can't be asked are present in DD's attitude sometimes, if she was operating on full speed all the time she would be achieving more.
My question was "Is she ahead or not?" Well it turns out she is ahead, but not gifted and TBH with you I think DD's maturity and perseverance are her strengths, it is her desire to do her best(most of the time) that will take her far hopefully in the future, as for giftedness I don't my own feelings towards it, I suppose it scares me a little, huge responsibility if she was, and all other questions giftedness would entail:
How to help her?
What to do with her?
Do I have time and dedication for this?
Is school doing enough?
Is she going to have social imbalances giftedness sometimes attracts?
And so on.

Know

Key stage tests test ability, not giftedness. If they have not been taught say fractions a child will not be able to answer a question on fractions in the exam.

Totally agree Richmal. The writing test is for punctuation and the like, not originality, creativity and vocabulary.

Key stage tests only support teacher's assessments (in fact they do give marks for vocab, etc). Teachers CAN assess higher than a level 3 at KS1.

Purple books are around a 2B, so not that far off the assessment.

KS tests test what should have been taught through the curriculum by that stage, and therefore, children's achievement against an 'expected' level. I agree, they certainly don't test 'giftedness', and much of the time they just test good memories, in the same way as the O levels did when I took them in the 1970s!

All children,(although not that possilble in the reality)should be given appropriate education,not just the gifted one.In other word, we don't need to prove our children are 'gifted', then to be given right job to do.If you ask me most of the 5% (whatever)children are gifted or not, it's a no(and pointless )from my personal opinion,but it's a yes, everybody should be given the right job to do.

Somebody mentioned a teacher told a big headed 'gifted' child, go back to practice your spelling!(Cant remember where it is now.)

I think teacher will more likely appreciate children and parents working hard rather than being told that somebody is gifted.

Are there any tests which will distinguish whether a child is gifted or has been taught?

Didn't realise they tested vocabulary. Of course they do need to test the curriculum skills that have been taught but there are many "gifted" dyslexic writers out there who would not have done well in the SATS writing test so the test should not be seen as the be all and end all.

Richmal, maybe an individual IQ test would test for certain aspects of gifted, but perhaps not creativity, etc.

Perhaps if this forum was re-named and the "gifted" word was removed, it would solve all the issues about what is and what isn't gifted. Is this the top 10% as defined by school achievement forum or the top 1% as defined by an IQ test forum? Both groups of children may have issues.

Hi lou2321,
Just read your post about gifted children being SEN. When my dd was at primary and they couldn't give her any more work ("look on internet" i was told) i actually asked whether she would be classed as SEN and i was laughed at by the head. She said that SEN was for "problem" children.

I dislike the word "gifted". It seems to take out all the possibility of nurture being part of the equation.
Without adult intervention a child would not even learn to speak, let alone read or do maths. Every "gifted" child has had some help.
Even a child's intelect and therefore IQ score may be improved by education.
Most of all "gifted" gives the impression that ability is set at birth and impossible to improve upon.

ibizagirl - I can't believe the school were unable to push your dd, its just laziness or they truly believed she was working to the top of her ability, obviously I don't know the situation. All schools work very differently with regards to G&T programmes - some use it to push the higher ability pupils, others just acknowledge exceptional children and others not really at all!

My DS worked with the SENCO at pre-school as he was so far ahead and the SENCO co-ordinator from EY's helped them to give him appropriate work to push him whilst maintaining 'learning through play'. He was on the census as SEN.

I don't really know who's right about the 'giftedness' thing, yes I guess part of it is taught but if it wasn't partly a natural talent then every child would be able to acheive identical levels if taught by the same person which isn't the case.

In my DS's case I believe it is very unusual (I could be wrong but not according to friends) for a 22 month old to pick up a laptop that teaches phonics (by sound and sight) and learn them all in 2 days completely unaided. Maybe he just has a good memory I don't know but he used this knowledge to read at the age of 3, at pre-school one day they were learning phonics and he just read the words and from that day on could just read - so not taught at all. He is still progressing at a fast rate so I hope it will continue.

I am NOT saying he is gifted as it is an odd term and kind of sounds like its a magic power - maybe just talented or able?????

I think that following on this discussion, a child who is gifted/excellent whatever term you want to use at say English will stand out, have huge advantages over someone gifted at say art or even maths - at primary level at least.

I see this with my eldest son, who sounds identical to lou's child. As his reading is so advanced it has developed his vocabulary massively so he is articulate and able to access all sorts of text. This makes him sound so knowledgeable and obviously advances him in most areas of the curriculum, including science. He is also amazing at writing because of his reading.

He is just above average at maths but he wows everyone because of his English abilities spanning such a range of skills.

My DD1 who is exceptionally able at maths but just average at English has had a completely different experience, maths doesn't seem to have the same impact at primary on perceptions of ability.

I guess this will be even more so with subjects like art or music, if an 8 year old is gifted at art of music they will not be recognised as a gifted child in most schools, as it is all based on such a narrow set of principles!

I agree itsonlyyearfour, lot of emphasis is put on early literacy ability and for reasons you mention and rightly so, it's broad and gives a child tools to access lot of different subject with greater literate base.
On the other hand children like your DD will reap fruits of their extensive mathematical knowledge later in their education, certainly in secondary years where great ability in maths is seen as a great asset.
Other subjects such as Physics, Chemistry and Statistics are are very mathematical in core, child excelling in maths will in all probability do very well in scientific subjects and over all find mathematical/logical subjects not daunting but enjoyable.
This was experience we had with DS, who although able in English, but never avid reader got B in GCSE English however he got AAA* maths, chemistry physics and statistics and hence based on that picked his A levels subjects.
I tend to favour maths, it is more tangible and also useful, it is leads to great courses and touches on so many great scientific grounds, opens lot's of doors IME.
If talent/gift is in artistic subject such as art or music it is also very obvious later in childhood, it can be visible early on in primitive way, but not crystal clear until the age where child has reached certain emotional maturity, I also think if talent in child is of an artistic nature it can not be cultivated as much as say in English or Maths, it runs more deep and it's very closely engaged to the emotional side of a child.

I am getting worried about DD1 being kept pace with. Not saying she is gifted or anything but is in Y1 the youngest in the class and is free reading. She can read the newspaper fluently and gets through a Magic Rainbow Fairy book every day. Her reading books from school are far too easy as are the spellings. Her first list of spellings she threw in the bin as she didn't think they were for her as they were too easy. The children who are struggling with reading gets lots of help and support which is great and as it should be but I feel no provision is being made at all for those at the other end of the scale who also differ from the norm. Its beginning to feel like she is supposed to coast to wait for the others to catch up.

Dread being a pushy parent but wondering if I should go and see the teacher about it. She's my first so not sure about what is appropriate.

Kerala,
I found easy book is easier for me to check their comprehension.In the similiar situation, my Ds2 is also doing his book review everytime on his reading record.
How about make a sentence for each spelling words, or even a little poem, story?
Try to use the same material but work on a different level.

Is the level B related to actual achievement or effort put in? Because if your daughter does everything easily, she is unlikely to be putting loads of effort in.

Thanks curious mind good tips

Purplepeak B was awarded as a general mark, and I think mostly for DD's attitude towards work in the classroom sometimes, can't be asked sort of thing, maybe little boredom or wanting to play and do something else contributed to the B.
We are taking it easy with her, she is so young and there is no point pushing her unnecessary, we are reading and doing lot's of maths which she enjoys immensely, she is happy and that's is all that matters.
School started to send especially tailored maths homework once a week containing lot's of mathematical sentences from which she needs to extract all the information and get to the result by herself, so that is also keeping her occupied.