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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

Original poster

level 4c in y3

31 replies

suecy · 30/11/2011 16:21

DC is level 4c for everything, and 4b in maths just a term into y3. Is this bright,or something more?

Always thought 4B was average leaving y6, so does it mean DC is 3 yrs ahead?

OP posts:
lljkk · 30/11/2011 16:40

mmm... DS1 was something like 4c in y3 in maths + English (he was no better than 2a in y2) Confused.
Now y7, still high ability, but not supergenius or anything.
My advice is Just be glad that he's doing well. Yes he might be 3yrs ahead but he might plateau, too and only be 6 months ahead come y6; it's not a fixed reliable assessment, ime.

workshy · 30/11/2011 23:01

quite often they might be given a particular level but they don't have the dept of knowledge to be a secure level

example -my dd is classed as a 5c for english however she produces some pieces of work at level 7, and some at 4c

be proud that you have an able child but try not to read too much into it as levels don't really mean that much until high school

Joyn · 30/11/2011 23:33

Very high scores, especially this early in yr3. Id say tat was very able. Has dc improved a lot since last yr already then (just wondering why you haven't been curious about how able dc is before)?

Youre right, 4b is the expected level for the end of yr 6, but 5 is not uncommon & your dc is definitely on track for that (and possibly more).

If you're in a grammar school area, you should think about dc doing the 11 plus, and if you're not, just keep an eye that they continue to enjoy learning & are challenged & engaged.

ibizagirl · 01/12/2011 05:56

Hi suecy,
Just going on personal experience here. Dd was on 4A in year 3 and from year 4 got 5A although teachers say work would be graded higher. I agree with others though. These results don't really do much and your child could plateau like one mner said. The year 6 results are the main ones because of going into high school and then the results will be used for putting children into their sets. Your dc is doing very well and will probably get labelled like my dd as "gifted" and all the rest. But be careful your dc will not get left behind like my dd and sort of left to her own devices or help others "less able" because school couldn't give her anything more challenging! Good luck x.

blackeyedsanta · 01/12/2011 11:08

that is good. they could be a little overinflated by an enthusiastic teacher but that would be unusual early in the year. keep an eye on him and check that he keeps making progress. they may let him stall as they concentate on the less able.

iggly2 · 01/12/2011 18:58

I have always been far more impressed with advancement in English than maths (so much is exposure with maths eg show them times tables earlier they advance quick). I actually think we expect far to little of maths in the classroom.

I admit I have never had Reception/early year scores or NC levels for DS, but , the ones you quote sound great from my over exposure to the subject via mumsnet Wink.

pinkhebe · 01/12/2011 19:01

My ds was a level 4a in literacy in yr 3

and yr4

and yr 5

and a 5 in yr 6!

iggly2 · 01/12/2011 20:48

I am sure your ds has been improving pinkhebe. I have read what people quote as being required for levels 2, 3 and 4. I do not think I have passed those levels yet!

IndigoBell · 05/12/2011 13:34

It doesn't mean he's 3 years ahead.

If he gets a level 4 in Y6 he's predicted to get Cs in GCSEs

If he gets a level 5 in Y6 he's predicted to get As (or A*s) in GCSEs

And this is the first year you can get a level 6 in Y6 - but obviously those kids are still just expected to get As (or A*s) at GCSEs

so he's 3 years ahead of kids who are predicted to get Cs.

He's on track to comfortably get As at GCSEs

PointyLittleDonkeyEars · 06/12/2011 21:49

Indigo that's really interesting! I had no idea about those correlations.
Do they assume that the children in question are taking GCSEs at age 16? It's just that my DD1 is going into an ambitious secondary (which is good, though shame about the blazers and ties) and they are trumpeting their habit of getting pupils to sit GCSEs early.

DD1 is expected to get 5A in Maths, English and Science by end of Yr6, so doing very well but by no means little Einstein (thank goodness) - but if the school encourages her to sit GCSEs early will that impact her potential result? I would much rather she sat at age 16 with the potential to get A/A* than do it early and settle for less than that.

adoptmama · 07/12/2011 04:53

NC levels in year 6 (or indeed KS3) do not predict performance at GCSE in secondary school nor are they intended to do so. There is nothing to suggest that a child on level 4 in year 6 is predicted a C grade at all. I have taught many children on level 4 on entry to secondary school - which is where they are expected to be after all - who do far better than this. NC levels are not predictors, nor can they be with the variation in exam curricula. This is nothing more than a popular myth.

They are nothing more than an indication of potential and, considering how many schools teach to the test, the results are not always viewed as especially reliable or indicative by secondary teachers. Also of course they are only indicating achievement/level in certain subjects and that can not be cross-referenced to other subjects i.e a level 4b in year 6 English does not mean they are level 4b in History or Geography or Biology etc. Even something like MidYis which is, frankly, of far more use in accurately indicating potential of child, does not predict (or claim to predict) a gcse grade.

Re sitting early: there is little benefit to children in sitting gcse early. Many fail to achieve the top grades (A or A*) so will resit anyway which can count against them on many university courses which only accept the first grade achieved.

coccyx · 07/12/2011 05:18

Majority of girls in my DD class are on similar levels. Not super bright. Clever and competitive though

Iamnotminterested · 07/12/2011 08:16

Adoptamama with respect you are wrong with the information in your post. Year 6 SAT results most certainly ARE used as predictors of GCSE success. DH is a HT.

Bonsoir · 07/12/2011 08:24

"I have always been far more impressed with advancement in English than maths (so much is exposure with maths eg show them times tables earlier they advance quick). I actually think we expect far to little of maths in the classroom."

I completely agree with your sentiments about maths (exposure and the fact that we expect too little in the classroom). However, I also think that language development is largely down to exposure rather than any kind of innate ability. This is quite easy to judge when you have a bilingual child who is exposed in a meaningful way (OPOL at home and a bilingual school) to both languages.

cory · 07/12/2011 09:00

Iamnot, some schools are more into using SATS results as predictors of GCSE results. Dd was ill a lot in junior school and her HT was always on at them about how you have ruined your chances for life if you do badly in your SATS which stressed a lot of the children out; in fact, that was the tenor of his introductory speech in Yr 3.

Fortunately, dcs' secondary is heavily into value added and how you can help pupils to achieve beyond expectation.

Iamnotminterested · 07/12/2011 09:24

cory I am not saying the system is right, or good, but a tool used by OFSTED to beat teachers up with. One would hope that, yes, all children are helped to be the very best that they can be.

IndigoBell · 07/12/2011 09:46

At a more basic level, approx 25% of kids will get a L5 in English in Y6, and approx 25% of kids will get an A in GCSEs, so clearly you would hope that kids who enter with a L5 will get an A.

But the govt does have expectations for GCSEs based on KS2 levels.

adoptmama · 07/12/2011 10:00

With equal respect Iamnotinterested, I am not wrong. A level 4 in year 6 is an indicator that the child has the potentialto achieve a minimum of a C grade in gcse IF they continue to progress at the same rate they are currently doing.

It does not predict they will achieve a grade C, which is the point I made. SATs cannot predict GCSE outcome - they indicate a child's potential ability if progress continues unabated.

There is a difference between potential to achieve, and a predicted grade. No teacher predicts a GCSE grade off SATs. It is difficult to even predict with certainty off a Mock exam based on a completed curriculum. You cannot predict a grade at GCSE years before the child even starts the curriculum anymore than you can predict an A level grade based on GCSE result: or you have is an indication of potential. I've been head of many things, including curriculum management and development, Pastoral Support and KS 3, 4 and 5 in my career. On this issue I stand by what I said - you cannot and do not, as a secondary teacher, predict GCSE grade based in Year 11 on a SAT result from Year 6, nor do you view a child in Year 7 with the expectation that this is what they are (limited) to achieve. What you have is a (very imprecise) indicator of potential IF progress continues on same slope.

adoptmama · 07/12/2011 10:03

There is also a huge difference between predicting an actual grade achievement and using SAT's for OFSTED to judge value added or under performance in a secondary school. These are two very different things.

IndigoBell · 07/12/2011 10:03

Ok, you're right. Predict is the wrong word.

But their KS2 SATS are used to set targets for GCSEs. Which is what I meant by 'predict'.

growing3rdbump · 07/12/2011 10:12

He is bright. My DD is also 4c/4b in everything and is in Yr3. She was level 3a at the end of Yr2 (although this can only be recorded as L3). DD has always be top of her class and I'm just hoping she'll continue to do well. Grin

Iamnotminterested · 07/12/2011 12:21

OK, put it this way, and I don't mean this in an argumentative way, if a child does not make 3 levels of progress in secondary school OFSTED are knocking on the door asking why the secondary school has failed those pupils.

adoptmama · 07/12/2011 12:50

oh totally agree with you on that OFSTED issue, which is why a lot of secondary teachers hate the whole SAT thing as we frequently see children in yr. 7 who are no-where near the level given to them in Primary. This is the problem with teaching to the test - the kids can do it in a test but cannot actually apply the skill in 'real life' situations/work. So the NC level is totally inflating what they are genuinely capable of which in turn makes the secondary school looks crap as it suddenly looks as if they 'stopped' making progress. :( Such is the bs education system we have been given! And lets not get started on situations where children are given a little extra 'help' on their SATs so that they perform well.

Iamnotminterested · 07/12/2011 13:25

adoptamama Are you my husband? He said exactly the same only last week, some y7 parents complaining that their child has not made any progress on paper yet, or even gone backwards.

HmmHmm...at the primaries.

IndigoBell · 07/12/2011 14:06

But the primaries are under the same pressure the secondaries are.

They have to show 2 levels of progress since KS1.....