Continued support for SPHINCTER INJURIES, FISTULAE and other CHILDBIRTH INJURIES - the Ragged Bits Thread

[Jacksmama]

Hi all,
old thread here.

Cyee started this thread in May 2008 after her op, and it's been a haven of support for so many of us who have injuries to our bits from childbirth. Especially with respect to sphincter injuries, fistulae and incontinence after childbirth, there seems to be such a lack of support for women, and the entire subject seems to be taboo. It's as if most MD's think that "a certain amount of damage is to be expected after birth and you just have to live with it". Well, that is simply not the case - and this attitude is unacceptable.

There are all kinds of Ragged Bits stories on this thread. Be aware that THERE IS NO "TMI" HERE - this is the one place where you can spill it all. If you read through the old thread, which is nearly full, you'll see that someone, somewhere, has probably experienced it - whatever it is! So don't be embarrassed or ashamed... we'll tell our poo stories if you'll tell yours.

And also - there are success stories here. Several of us who have been through the medical mill have been successfully "repaired" and are "fully functional", so to speak or even expecting again. In those cases, please join us for Pervwatch - the "after action" report for anyone who is once again venturing into marital relations!

Welcome everyone. We're sorry you had to find us, but we're glad you're here.

If I had known the potential damage childbirth causes I would have had caesareans with both of my dds. We're not told enough about these awful problems, until it's too late. Our bodies have been wrecked, and although I wouldn't be without my children, I think all women should know what childbirth can do to you. There's a huge guilt factor in having anything other than a natural birth - what a load of crap. We're all different, and surely our long-term health and quality of life is more important than chanting in a birthing pool!

hi everyone and some new faces
gosh i think it has been ages and ages since i was last on here.

Ive managed to read through lots of posts to try to get myself up to speed and ive found it difficult since being off here for so long.

i do hope that everyone on their own journey to recovery eventually gets the best results they can

CYEE Did you ever start your own website? I am thinking of doing it. Your threads have been such a huge, huge support for me and I don't intend to leave but I think I want to start up a site dedicated to these problems.

I often search online for more information, I bet there are so many women who never find MN.

I'm feeling particularly angry today. You know, if obstetricians cannot reliably repair the injuries they cause using forceps then they have no business using them.

I lay awake last night for the third night running planning my letter to the consultant who stitched my tear when dd was born. I am just so angry.

Oooohhh.. just saw my post from yesterday didn't appear.

Hulla - the web site never happened though I agree it would be excellent. So feel free to go for it. I'm a much better contributor than I am organiser, so let me know if you go for it and if there's anything I can do to help.

Was out with my NCT ladies on Saturday and even those with 'normal' births, stitches etc. were saying that it took over 12 months for sex to stop being painful. The more I learn the more I wonder how many advances are taking place within obstetrics/midwifery... ie I don't think there are any. When you think of the advances in medicine generally and things like plastic surgery in particular, how come our experiences aren't really too different to those of our mothers and grandmothers?? Makes me MAD!

hello everyone.
I'm so horrified to read the most recent posts - Gramber, Hulla, R&U, what you are going through sounds incredibly hard. I don't know what to say other than I'm so sorry, and I really hope that you get the help you need. It's fantastic that this thread exists.

I saw the women's health physio today and talked to her about my poo problems. She said that she's been reading lately about sphincter damage, and apparently it can happen even when there is absolutely no tearing (something to do with the shearing force of the baby?) Anyway, she was encouraging about things, gave me some more exercises, and she'll do a proper check when I see her again in the New Year. So at least I now feel I've done the responsible thing in talking to a health professional about it! Much easier with her than the GP, somehow...

Hi all... gosh I seem to have fallen off this thread for a while - sorry!! Welcome to all the newcomers. (I always say this sorry you had to find us but glad you did.

Cyee, congratulations on your bump!
Hugs to everyone else. What shitty (pun intended) things we have to deal with.

Brief update on me: haven't had any actual incontinence since July (cheers for that ), but due to occasional IBS, don't like being away from home when having diarrhoea. Spoke with my surgeon about this and she said I needed to go back to the pelvic floor physio. If things haven't improved by Feb (Jackbaby's 2nd birthday) she will refer me to the poo clinic for biofeedback treatments. But on the whole, things are pretty good. The Voltaren suppositories my GP prescribed help with my painful bits when I have my period, and about the only that is really aggravating me right now is that my haemorrhoids are acting up. Grrr.

For Cyee's survey -
I do have mild IBS.
Never felt ovulation pains until 1999 when I had a miscarriage - since then, strangely, I always feel it when I ovulate, and since my periods came back after having Jack, the ovulation pains are fierce.
Re: tightness of my bits, well, I dunno. Never had any complaints, but never had any special mention of the matter, either.

To whoever it was who said her orgasms don't work any more - that means you have pudendal nerve damage. The pudendal nerve is in charge of orgasms, as well as anal sphincter sensation and motor control. It can easily be crushed by a baby who is stuck and is left there while mum tries to push, especially for hours of pushing. Also easily damaged by forceps.

Hey Jacksmama - lovely to 'see' you And hello Thisishorrible.

Thanks for your congrats. I only have 10 weeks to go. ARGH!

Hi,
This is my first post on mumset and may seem trivial compared to some of the issues people are dealing with but I am hoping for some advice and reassurance...

I had a third degree tear with my DS 22 months ago. I gave birth 6 days ago and had a 2nd degree tear in a very similar place (both babies came out with one hand up).

I realise this is very recent but since coming home I have been suffering with control over my rear end. The tear is healing very well so far (i'm off painkillers and can control pee well enough). But when I need to poo I have no control over it and pushing my finger into my anus met with very little resistance (sorry if that sounds a bit gross...). My mw is referring me to the physio but it won't be weeks/months till I get an appointment.

Mostly I feel fine physically, I am just tormenting myself with visions of a future of fecal incontinence. Is it manageable? Am I worrying too much about it now when PF exercises and time might make things better? How can I stop dwelling on the if onlys - at the moment I am keeping myself awake my dwelling on the fact that I was offered a cs but chose to have a vaginal delivery.

Please forgive me if my issues seem mild, but to me they seem terrifying and sometimes overwhelm my enjoyment of my lovely babies.

Hi betty, welcome to MN and to our thread!

From what I have read this sort of problem is common after childbirth and can last upto 6 months pp.

I think they like to let things heal a bit before sending you to physio but I believe it does help.

Time will definately improve things. Just think, your pelvic floor muscles are still recovering from 9 months of pregnancy and the weight and hormones that come with that.

Also remember that this thread is probably an extreme example of birth injuries and that most people recover just fine. I would hope say that we're not representative of women who've suffered tears.

Will see if I can find more info for you.

Congrats on the birth of your baby btw!

Thanks for your welcome and response.

You have made me feel a lot better. My research seemed to only find experiences of people who had no problems or those that had extreme ones, which has made me fear the worst.

I will try and relax, work on my pelvic floor and enjoy my maternity leave with my babies. And will face the physio when I get an appointment.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I hope I don't have to post on this thread again. However, you have made me feel immeasurably better, so thank you and I wish you all the best.

I had originally typed something about hoping not to see you on here again but thought you might take it the wrong way

Hope to see you around mumsnet though there are much cheerier threads on here!

Hello everyone. Sorry to hear some of you have had horrible experiences and I really hope that this thread is helping. I know it comforts me.

I haven't been on this thread in ages. A quick recap of my history - rotational forceps and a third degree tear 2 years ago left me with mild (but annoying enough) faecal incontinence. Mainly paying more attention to it cause was planning on getting pregnant again and realised that my biggest worry about the whole thing was further damage.

Well, I'm now pregnant again , and went for 12 week scan and booking in yesterday and found out it's twins

Was all hyped up at the appointment to rant about no induction, no forceps, and possible elective c-section. But was kind of distracted over the issue of having two!

Am kind of off topic here, but I'm still in shock and think that maybe by telling everyone it might make it more real!

Oh my goodness congratulations GibberingGinger!!!!!! Wow - twins that's fantastic news! Did you have any suspicions?

I'd imagine you're more likely to have a section with twins - I guess it was too early to talk about that yesterday?

Ah - I'm really thrilled for you

Welcome Betty88 - good luck with everything!

Hi to everyone else

Wow GG - congratulations!!!! Fantastic news! Good luck with everything!! ((((hug))))

I saw my consultant on Mon and he suggested Interstim to me as well. Anyone had it (thanks for the brochure posting btw. Interestingly he did not recommend a CS with next baby.

Hi Littlesilver - great that your consultant is on the case with Interstim. Haven't had it so have no feedback.
On the CS front, I've only been recommended one because my repair would be damaged by another vaginal birth. I think the majority of consultants feel that an injury that has "healed" is not inevitably going to reoccur in future births. My personal view is that for many of the ladies on this thread we aren't 'normal' people with 2nd or 3rd degree tears, so you have to wonder if there's something that predisposes us to these injuries or certainly to more protracted recoveries... hence I think CS should be discussed.

How do you feel about VB vs CS? Which would you prefer?

Morning all, ginger! Congratulations, I am so thrilled for you! How exciting.

I received my pre-op appointment for my interstim trial which I think might be before Christmas so I'll post all the details if it helps.

This week I saw a gynae at another hospital for my vaginal pain and for the first time I felt like someone took me seriously about how upsetting this all is. She has urged me to complain to my trust about the missed tear and ask questions. She said it shouldn't happen. Just hearing that from a doctor was like a weight off my shoulders.

Anyway, it seems that some of the bulking agent I had injected into my internal sphincter has travelled to my vagina & set solid like a pebble. She has recommended surgically removing it along with cutting my episiotomy scar a bit because its tight. I am not sure I can face it tbh and she has concerns about further damage so I might just have to live with it.

On the subject of of CS v VB she explained it to me like this: If things are awful, as bad as you feel they can be then you could say "I'll have a VB because Ive nothing to lose" and that would be a good argument in favour of VB. However, if you're managing and you think it could be worse then she'd recommend a CS to keep the baby away from the tear area and avoid the risk.

It helped me make my peace with it all actually. It made sense to me and although things are bad I can't face making them worse.

I start my counselling today

Oh one last thing, because I have asked to work p/t because I want to see how I manage pain/wind/incontinence my employer is looking for another post for me. I'd also asked to limit my travel (meetings all over country would leave me sore from sitting on trains for long journeys) & big presentations (scared of doing something humiliating). So Im being moved from my high profile, make-a-name-for-yourself role to another one.

How are you cyee? Are the weeks flying by?

Hey Hulla
Yes the weeks are absolutely flying by. I only have about 8.5 weeks to go. Eeek!
It was lovely reading what positive effect a good experience with a doc can have. I'm so pleased you feel more at peace. How did the counselling go? What kind of counselling is it? Is it CBT or something like that?
I was really sorry to hear about your job situation. Is your current role a no-go from a p/time perspective or has your employer just assumed that? Are they being supportive? I can't tell from your post whether you are driving the change (ie you've told them what you can't do, and this means you can't do your old job) or whether they are driving it (ie taking advantage of your situ to move you) or is it a bit of both? Keep your wits about you.
Take care

8.5 weeks? Where did the time go? Gosh, have I been whinging about my bum for that long now?

I'm not sure about the counselling yet, I am not sure what kind it is but so far she seems to interrupt a lot to say things like "that's awful" and "Poor you" which really throws me and actually makes me want to smile. So maybe its a good thing. She has said she thinks we should focus on the impact this is all having on my marriage and actually one thing that did make me cross - I told her it had affected our sex life because of pain etc. I also somehow ended up mentioning that we co-sleep and she jumped on it immediately and suggested that might be the problem rather than the pain . I think she thought I'd brought dd into our bed to keep a bit of distance from dh (like bed is the only place to have sex).

Actually, the job thing is working out much better than expected. I am moving into a project role which is something I have been wanting to do for years. So it looks like my cloud does have a silver lining. It was a decision from both though really. I am an accountant and my role involved a lot of reporting to the board at month end. Its very specific days which may not always fit with my p/t hours.

Cyee I hope you have a lovely relaxing Christmas & New Year before your lo arrives. Will you come back and tell us what you have and how it all goes?

Doombar can they fix your broken orgasms?

My colorectal surgeon sent me for nerve tests. He told me that he wanted a baseline as of 2009 because he expected things to be ok now but to deteriorate.

I don't know if they can do anything or not but surely thats not the point? I need to go back and read what happened to you. I seem to think it is similar to me. Did you push for hours?

Im really pleased you've got marital relations back on track. We tried again last night because I just wanted to feel "normal".

So where are you with the specialists now? Is that it or are they going to try to improve things/sphincter/nerves?

Hi everyone, I'm lying here in bed as I've been Reading a book and don't want to get up how lazy and I was reflecting over the past year

I thought about my problem then operation then recovery and finally now and don't honestly think it was worth it.

I've caught up on everyones stories, pregnancies bumdctors incontinence sexual problems counselling that is needed and all the other issues and am really tempted to contact my local hospital and suggest certain departments read all our threads as I'm sure they would find them very useful

I do hope each of us eventually reaches a place where we feel as happy as can be even though it's hard as we will never be who we were

Hey everyone, and hello Kentmumtj,

I think you're right about the benefit of healthcare people reading threads like this. I recommended my physio read it... but was too chicken to actually show her the link as I'd already told her I started it

I think that while we've all shared many experiences, our own particular circs are often quite different and I wonder if this distracts the various people/departments involved from coming up with approaches that would benefit us all.

I've been faced with confusion and weird looks when I've explained my situation (and reasons for section) to consultants and midwives. All agree it's 'odd' and 'you must have had some kind of weakness there'. Great!

Anyway, I mainly came on to thank you for being so great in 2009 and to wish you all a better, healthier, happier 2010. I'm booked in for my section on Feb 4th so will be online before and after (possibly not during) that event to let you all know how it goes.

Take care everyone,
Cyee

Awww Cyee, come on, surely you can manage a few posts while having your section - how hard could it be??

Seriously - wishing you all the very very best for 2010. Thank you all for being here and understanding.

Love, JM