Eating 30 plants a week- what portion size is enough to count?

[CormorantStrikesBack]

Is it like 5 a day veg and it needs to be a handful or because it’s more about gut health is a smaller amount enough ?

I’ve just had a ready meal and figured I could count the brown rice. But what about all the smaller amounts of veg?

We do repeat some things but not often tbh. The watercress is 2 meals max for 3 of us. We also grow lots ourselves and freeze so things like strawberries in freezer from summer crop

We have a lot of things like soup also which are a couple of veggies or spices per soup.

Today will be:
granola (with flaked almonds and linseed added), yogurt with frozen blackberries and strawberries.

brocoli Soup. Seeded roll

mousakka (tomato’s, aubergine, potato). Watercress, spinach, raddish salad on side ( yea the watercress is a repeat)

Will probably have some cashews or fruit as snack sometime

@Caspianberg I think your menu sounds delicious and is the sort of thing we eat too but I'm also not sure that it represents the 'average' or 'normal' diet for a lot of people. Which is really the point of the 30 a week thing I suppose!

For anyone who's upping their nut intake, nuts can be amazingly expensive but Lidl sell some of the best nuts for the price (and often not even "just for the price"). The walnuts, for example, are halves and not bitter, whereas walnuts in many supermarkets are low quality, slightly rancid pieces and double the price. Even Aldi's are not as good as Lidl's. They also have nice seeds and milled linseed etc. I also get hazelnuts from Asda, though, as they are not roasted or blanched and are still in their skins (which has nutritional value).

Of course I would love to buy bags and bags of organic nuts online but it's totally out of reach for me financially.

It's also tricky to up your nut intake if you are watching your calorie intake, and while I love nuts and they are good for you it can be hard to stick to ten to twenty cashew nuts, particularly when a bit of egg on toast for the same calories as twenty nuts would be more satisfying personally.

Rather than counting the variety, I'd focus on having mostly cooked from scratch and mostly vegetarian food. For the sake of budget, the environment, common sense and trying to cut down on food waste there has to be some repetition. Plus I'm not convinced with the argument and science that variety is so important, not as important as eating a lot of veg, fibre, protein, not eating too much and cutting right down on ultra processed food, even if there is some repetition. If you do that, you will be doing better than most people. We're just mammals and not many mammals eat a really varied diet.

We're just mammals and not many mammals eat a really varied diet. Humans when omnivorous hunter-gatherers would have had a varied diet, because they would eat what they could find when they could find it.
It is only since we have started shopping for everything, especially from large stores, that our diets got so repetitive - if you forage for things or grow your own you will eat more varied foods. Obviously in winter things get more restricted but we now ignore things people would have eaten previously - wild garlic, nettles, sorrel, chickweed etc etc etc. Essential Foraging Guide - Wild Food Month by Month - Woodland Trust

Plus I'm not convinced with the argument and science that variety is so important The science of gut health is developing rapidly, but the variety is about establishing a good gut microbiome which is key for health overall, both mental and physical. As agriculture has become more about business and big supply chains, we eat a more predictable and limited diet, which has implications for health.

Plus I'm not convinced with the argument and science that variety is so important

I'm not convinced it's so important over a week. One person might eat almost the same 30 every week, another person might eat more seasonally and eat 20 in a week but a huge variation over a year.

This thread has made me think that instead of using my garden to grow things I can already buy in the shops, I might try to use the space to grow things that I can't get elsewhere.

I think an ultra processed ready meal negates any benefit of however many veg you eat…

One person might eat almost the same 30 every week, another person might eat more seasonally and eat 20 in a week but a huge variation over a year. Yes, the 30 is just a guideline and I am sure it would be better to eat 20/week with huge variety over the year than the same 30 each week all year round.

It is about making people think. One of the reasons the quidelines on 5/day have been amended to say only one portion of beans per day, only one portion of fruit juice per day is because some people do have very restricted diets and would drink a litre of orange juice and think 'job done'.

I think there are better ways of achieving behavioural and diet change than saying eat 30 types of plants a week. For most people it's about making small and sustainable changes. I try so hard with my diet and the 30 plants thing sounds like WTF? Just something else to worry about and offputting, rather than something achievable, when I'm actually doing pretty well and have no issues with my gut, energy levels or general health as it is, apart from wanting to lose a bit of weight, which I am doing, slowly. It says to me that I am trying my best but it isn't good enough. For someone who is eating a poor diet and wants to change, it may seem an insurmountable challenge and make them want to throw the baby out with a bathwater.

For nuts, it’s takes time but if you have a large garden I recommend growing some. They are some of the most high value crops.
We don’t have any due to space restrictions, but fortunately our neighbours do have excess amounts of walnuts they keep up in full supply in exchange for us helping collect them and shell each year.

Im going to plant a dwarf almond this year, as they grow max 2.5 m high, but they will be a few years before any produce

I know some people eat very similar and basic food with little variety, but I don’t think those people are really going to change for a healthy diet. For those already on a averagely healthy diet they probably are fine

I did it a few weeks ago and this was my list

Oats
Wholemeal spelt flour
Chia seeds
Flax seeds
Sesame seeds
Lettuce
Cucumber
Mixed nuts x 3
Melon honeydew
Dates
Brocolli
Aubergine
Potato
Wholewheat (muesli)
Peanut butter
Celery
Sweetcorn
Avocado
Carrot
Walnuts
Green beans
Red lentils
Parsnip
Butternut squash
Sweet potato
Dried apricot
Brazil nut

I hear what you are saying shearwater2 and can see that it could be overwhelming and that if you were feeling stressed by trying to achieve that target it could negate the benefits.

I think if you just look at it as a fun thing to do - Dr Bulsiewicz makes it into a competition for his family "Who can eat the most plant points this week?" - and just look at ways you can add more plants to your meals - then whatever you add will be of benefit to you, even if it's just introducing a new fruit or veg every week that can be easily slipped into existing meal plans. I don't think even Dr B says that you should just suddenly go to 30 plants if you are not having very many as it would probably be too much fibre if you are not used to it, but to introduce more plants gradually.

I think in a way, it's a healthy positive way of looking at things, apart from all the microbiome benefits, by focussing on what you are adding, rather than "I shall never eat chocolate again" and failing miserably.

I think that's a good point, Kalevala. I'm no scientist or expert but as you say you could get more variety over a year by eating seasonally, even if you are eating less variety over the course of a couple of months. And of course, the food will likely be fresher and more nutrient dense too. I must admit getting seasonal veggie boxes gets me to eat a greater variety of things that I wouldn't normally buy ...

I must admit getting seasonal veggie boxes gets me to eat a greater variety of things that I wouldn't normally buy ...

Yes, me too. If I was just shopping at the supermarket I'd shop somewhat seasonally, like summer fruit and veg when it's at its best, but I'd certainly have much less variation over a year. With the veg box, I adapt to what we get, and we get several different types of beans, different coloured courgettes, kale, swiss chard and so on. Some you don't even see in the supermarket.

Exactly Kalevala. If I was just buying from the supermarket, I'd be buying the same variety of kale or whatever every week. This way you get to try so much more that you just wouldn't see in the shops. Sometimes I think "Oh my goodness, what do I do with this?" but that makes me get creative or try new dishes to incorporate them ...

While it’s obviously good to eat a variety, the 30 figure is hardly based on sound science. Tim Spector is a very rich man

• Googles Tim Spector *

He is, but he's not going to be making any money out of telling you to eat more veg.

Yes, I think if you want to get filthy stinking rich, you'd go into pharmaceuticals not nutrition. I know people pay for his Zoe personalised programme, but no money to be made from telling people to eat more fruit and veg ...

He (being Tim Spector) has a big display and tie up with M&S at the moment. You can buy little (150ml) bottles of his magic kefir for £2 a pop.

I think he’s making a bomb from Zoe. It’s his company isn’t it? So he’s in charge, the profits are his. The average doctor can’t just set up a pharmaceutical company on their own, I know someone else said if you wanted to be rich that’s what you’d do. But it would need more money and overheads plus it’s risky.

im happy to try and eat better but i don’t think I’ll pay £300 to send Tim a poo sample. Im not that convinced about the benefit from having my poo analysed.

Currently watching a program on gut health on ch 4. They’re talking about 30 plants a week.

Some woman on the tv show has had her poo analysed, her gut now has loads of good gut bacteria since increasing plant food. She’s lost weight, got more energy and her ibs symptoms improved.

I didn't know that, but still, the message is the same and he's not telling people they have to do his Zoe programme, or buy from M&S or buy his kefir to be healthy ...

You know, I always find it fascinating that no-one judges people making money out of say MacDonalds but whenever people advocating something that will only do people good makes money, it's like they are doing something wrong ...