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Zoe Nutrition - life changing or a fad? I'm wondering whether to take the plunge

36 replies

BergamotMouse · 28/05/2023 07:45

I'm wondering whether this is worth a go.

Has anyone given it a go? Would you recommend it? I've seen things saying it's common sense and a lot of the recommended foods are the same for everyone.

I don't want to waste my money.

OP posts:
Happydays321 · 28/05/2023 08:03

Following with interest, I'm thinking about it too.
I know I could buy the glucose monitor but I'm interested in my bodies response to fat and what my gut biome is like.

BergamotMouse · 28/05/2023 08:04

Yes, I did look at buying a CGM. It's cheaper but I'm not sure I'd know what to do with the data.

OP posts:
Swedishwood · 28/05/2023 08:18

Watching with interest.

I also considered it because I already know I have serious Cholesterol issues (though to be familial hypercholesterolaemia but proven through genetic testing not to be) and a high family Diabetes risk. However I was put off by the high price, long waiting list and negative comments on the FB page .

As a compromise I read Tim Spector’s book Food for life and read the Glucose Goddess book. I also got a two week Glucose Monitor to try and work out where I was with glucose control.

The upshot of that was that I removed all animal products from my diet, along with gluten and sugar. I also adopted the Zoe 30 way of eating.

16 weeks in and I feel much, much, healthier and have lost 6lb. I know from strip testing that my fasting glucose has dropped and I am looking forward to my regular cholesterol test in June with 🤞🤞🤞for a fall in those numbers.

I really admire the work Zoe are doing in this area, but personally thought the cost was prohibitive and felt that with some focus and attention I could probably achieve a great deal flying solo.

MyFaceIsAnAONB · 28/05/2023 08:18

I did it last summer - the tests they do are really good IMO - I haven’t seen any other thing/program which tells you exactly which bugs you have in your guts. So that’s was amazing to me.

I think the app/advice is a lot of common sense and I got very behind on my daily articles and there was no way to pause so I just had a backlog building and it was overwhelming and I quit. But maybe they’ve fixed that by now.

But for me it was a really really great insight into how my body handles sugar and fat and took a lot of the guesswork out of things - I always assumed the worst so it was good to be in the know with what actually was happening in my body. It’s definitely personalised as you wear a CGM, eat these muffins etc and then give blood etc. So that side of things isn’t generic, but the reading/app is quite generic.

AuntieN · 28/05/2023 08:24

I've signed up and should be doing it in the next couple of months. Really looking forward to getting the results.

jotunn · 28/05/2023 08:25

I did it. The poo test was interesting, but the blood test didn't work. It had to be timed quite carefully after eating muffins but the timings on the box didn't say it needed to dry flat for at least an hour which I hadn't factored into the day.

As a result they said that I had issues with blood sugar and blood fat and basically couldn't eat very much at all. I managed the diet for a month or so, but found it difficult.

By far the most interesting bit was the blood sugar and the monitor - watching my blood sugar go up and down in real time depending what I'd eaten was really interesting and that has led to some lasting changes.

lljkk · 28/05/2023 08:30

I follow Zoe threads because I'm nosy.
Have not seen any MNer say it was life changing.

The most commonly mentioned benefit (if people say there was any benefit) is people saying that they "know" more about themselves.
The 2nd most commonly mentioned benefit might be that they feel more energetic and mentally positive.

No one is going to be told by Zoe programme that it's fine to drink lots of booze or scoff sweets & KFC daily. If you already long-term easily follow "clean" eating habits, then maybe you'd be able to tell what using Zoe advice added to your health, given you already had a 'good' diet.

Oh, and Zoe programme usually includes a coach, right? Would having a coach help you eat better quality?

I suspect you have to follow the Zoe recommendations for like 20 years to see the supposed benefits, and they are mostly in the form of health problems you didn't get (yet, or later than you would have otherwise). That benefit is very hard to measure objectively.

manontroppo · 28/05/2023 08:34

lljkk · 28/05/2023 08:30

I follow Zoe threads because I'm nosy.
Have not seen any MNer say it was life changing.

The most commonly mentioned benefit (if people say there was any benefit) is people saying that they "know" more about themselves.
The 2nd most commonly mentioned benefit might be that they feel more energetic and mentally positive.

No one is going to be told by Zoe programme that it's fine to drink lots of booze or scoff sweets & KFC daily. If you already long-term easily follow "clean" eating habits, then maybe you'd be able to tell what using Zoe advice added to your health, given you already had a 'good' diet.

Oh, and Zoe programme usually includes a coach, right? Would having a coach help you eat better quality?

I suspect you have to follow the Zoe recommendations for like 20 years to see the supposed benefits, and they are mostly in the form of health problems you didn't get (yet, or later than you would have otherwise). That benefit is very hard to measure objectively.

I think it’s a bit of a fad. They stress they are not about weight loss and if anyone has a coach they will eat better - accountability is a serious factor in sticking to diets/food plans.

Porridgeislife · 28/05/2023 08:34

I’m a big fan of Tim Spector, but the lead time puts me off. You can’t start for 3 months, but still have to pay upfront albeit via instalments. And it’s expensive!

manontroppo · 28/05/2023 08:34

Sorry I meant to say I agreed with the post I quoted, hence I quoted it!

InspectorGamache · 28/05/2023 08:36

I did it and agree with the poster above. The testing was interesting. I learned I have large reactions to sugar but not to fat; and helped me eat nut more easily and give up starches.

But the diet advice and app over promise. Everyone gets more or less the exact same advice with tiny tweaks. Zoe urges against meat for environmental reasons, not nutrition. They do tie themselves in knots trying to justify this. I had some food recommended to me that spiked my blood sugar when I wore a second CGM. They don’t have enough evidence to really predict how foods will affect each person. The app is rubbish when compared to other tracking apps and the customer service is terrible. It took me 3 weeks to cancel, and after I cancelled once they charged me again at a higher rate.

Some people seem to love it, but I suspect these were very new ideas to them. If you listen to the podcast you are up to speed.

The worst part was how disappointed I was, and how my more savvy teenagers laughed at me for falling for the latest well marketed diet. I felt like a mug.

I liked the CGM. I suggest you start with a cgm (£50) and read the glucose goddess and you will get the same benefit I did for over £400.

sashh · 28/05/2023 08:38

I've not heard of this.

But I have used a CGM, they cost about £50.

https://www.freestyle.abbott/uk-en/products/freestyle-libre-2.html

My reason was that I have type 2 diabetes and as a PP said it was interesting to see what spiked my glucose and what brought it down.

I can eat a small amount of dark chocolate without it spiking but a banana did spike.

FreeStyle Libre 2 | Flash Glucose Monitoring | Abbott

FreeStyle Libre 2 is the first and only 14-day glucose monitoring system with alarms and proven accuracy without finger prick calibration.

https://www.freestyle.abbott/uk-en/products/freestyle-libre-2.html

InspectorGamache · 28/05/2023 08:41

It is not a coaching service. The coaches are chat-bots and super slow to respond chat bots. If they are real humans they are doing a very bad job of it.

if you are an experienced dieter - and I am - the coaching is more like Noom than proper coaching.

If you want a coach find a real person. There are many out there.

KevinDeBrioche · 28/05/2023 08:46

I also looked into it but the cost is prohibitive. Went with the CGM as linked above, listened to a lot of the podcasts and started following glucose goddess.

I’m pretty healthy already but have made some tweaks and I definitely understand better what my body needs through the day to stay stable . The glucose monitor is very, very good for £50 imo.

i think these personalised services will become more popular and Zoe will get undercut very soon. I would like to to do the poo analyses etc but will wait for a cheaper option to do so.

NNat · 28/05/2023 09:14

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

ModeWeasel · 28/05/2023 09:18

I have done it and found it both interesting and helpful from a health perspective. I am eating better, have more energy and feel much better.

I have made some positive switches in food habits that feel like they will stick. I have learnt some things about how my body works that have changed how I approach how I eat. I haven’t lost weight though.

I have a referral code left if someone needs one you can PM me.

sashh · 28/05/2023 09:28

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

You do have to throw it away and get a new one.

Because of the diabetes I got a free sample and then I did buy one, but I got all the info I needed in those 4 weeks.

My last two A1Cs were 36 and 35. When I was diagnosed it was 69.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 28/05/2023 09:34

Would the CGM thingy be useful for someone who doesn't have diabetes but has a very strong family history of heart disease, so concerned about blood sugar spikes in relation to developing heart problems? Does it tell you how to interpret the results it gives? Like - blood sugar is supposed to go up after you eat, so how do you know when it's a dangerous spike and not just a natural and safe after eating rise?

sashh · 28/05/2023 09:37

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 28/05/2023 09:34

Would the CGM thingy be useful for someone who doesn't have diabetes but has a very strong family history of heart disease, so concerned about blood sugar spikes in relation to developing heart problems? Does it tell you how to interpret the results it gives? Like - blood sugar is supposed to go up after you eat, so how do you know when it's a dangerous spike and not just a natural and safe after eating rise?

Maybe.

You use your smart phone to download data so you can enter what you have eaten and when, what exercise you do and se the results on a graph, or daily patterns, average glucose etc.

stepstepstep · 28/05/2023 09:38

Very similar experience to everyone here - I liked the tests but the rest of it is very repetitive & a bit dull to be honest. The recipes are not helpful and I think the advice is pretty generic. I’ll probably cancel after this month. But I didn’t do it for weight loss per se, more that I was worried that my blood sugar control would be bad (it’s actually very good - blood fat is my problem) so to that extent I’ve been reassured. And my Zoe scores for ‘white carbs’ were so very low that it has provided the kick up the arse I needed to introduce brown rice and pasta & cut a lot of bread out of my diet. But nothing is totally off limits.

NNat · 28/05/2023 10:39

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

sashh · 28/05/2023 10:42

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

No problem.

I don't work for them believe it or not. I just found it really useful so I'm a bit evangelic about it.

Porridgeislife · 28/05/2023 11:19

If you’re fairly clued up on blood sugar & healthy diets in general, is the poo analysis worth the money? I’m quite happy to get a Freestyle Libre and DIY that aspect.

I had gestational diabetes so got quite familiar with blood sugars and fortunately the Glucose Goddess was around and I used her tips a lot. Like @BewareTheBeardedDragon I’ve gota very strong family history of heart disease and I think there’s evidence that blood sugar spikes can over time accelerate plaques in the arteries.

Tupster · 28/05/2023 12:41

I did it last year and hated it. Felt really cheated by the end.

The testing phase is fun and interesting but the rest I thought didn't live up to their claims at all. Part of what I hated has probably changed now - it was very new in the UK, so the app and "coaching" was full of awful "you go girl!" american-ness and was written as though targetted at 2-year olds. They had a lot of feedback about that so that's probably changed.

However, the "coaching" isn't coaching - it's just a low quality chatbot telling you very obvious things. I hope they've done something better with AI functionality now, because it spends a lot of time asking you questions like "what did you have for breakfast" and when I did Zoe you could type in "800 donuts" and it would just say "that's a great choice!".

As other people have said, the "personalisation" is very dubious. The basic advice you get will be pretty much identical to what is said in the Zoe podcasts - it's basically telling you to eat a Mediterranean style diet whatever your results. I had poor sugar control and excellent fat control, but even with that they give meat low scores which I'm sure is ideological, not based on science.

The overarching message is very much "eat real unprocessed food" but the app is set up to make that really hard to log. Buy processed food with a barcode and it's snap and save (although when I did it, UK brands were very hit and miss), try to enter natural foods and you are endlessly searching for things that won't come up unless you phrase it exactly as they have entered it. Put something like "pork" in and it'll give you no results unless you can type an exact cut of meat etc. Scoring results could be very hit and miss - one brand of pickled onions would be red, another green. etc.

There is almost no guidance on where to start with eating a personalised Zoe diet. They give you about 10 good and bad foods - based on what you ate in the testing phase, so inevitably you get told not to eat white bagels, which you had to eat a lot of as they were the test of "bad carbs" so you really knew that already. They do nothing to help you discover new good foods. It's just guessing things, putting it into the app and seeing what it says. It has no meal plans or proper recipes - it just links to randomly generated ones on Allrecipes or similar that are American foods, in American measures and have about 30 ingredients that would cost you a week's budget and generate tons of food waste if you had to go buy it all for one plate of food.

The way the app works also means that it encourages you to just add more and more random things onto your plate to bring the score up. I found the mechanics of that pushed me towards bigger portions of foods I wasn't enjoying (everything ended up with random nuts and seeds on top, whether it suited the food or not), rather than helping me find the basic staples I could make normal meals out of. Even though I was reaching the targets Zoe gave me, I ended up gaining weight while eating food I didn't enjoy at all!

What I got out of it was simply that lower carb diets are a better choice for me. Other than that the advice is no better or different from anyone else who recommends real food, fruit and veg, fibre etc - which is basically every diet ever.

tedchester1 · 13/07/2023 07:32

Tupster · 28/05/2023 12:41

I did it last year and hated it. Felt really cheated by the end.

The testing phase is fun and interesting but the rest I thought didn't live up to their claims at all. Part of what I hated has probably changed now - it was very new in the UK, so the app and "coaching" was full of awful "you go girl!" american-ness and was written as though targetted at 2-year olds. They had a lot of feedback about that so that's probably changed.

However, the "coaching" isn't coaching - it's just a low quality chatbot telling you very obvious things. I hope they've done something better with AI functionality now, because it spends a lot of time asking you questions like "what did you have for breakfast" and when I did Zoe you could type in "800 donuts" and it would just say "that's a great choice!".

As other people have said, the "personalisation" is very dubious. The basic advice you get will be pretty much identical to what is said in the Zoe podcasts - it's basically telling you to eat a Mediterranean style diet whatever your results. I had poor sugar control and excellent fat control, but even with that they give meat low scores which I'm sure is ideological, not based on science.

The overarching message is very much "eat real unprocessed food" but the app is set up to make that really hard to log. Buy processed food with a barcode and it's snap and save (although when I did it, UK brands were very hit and miss), try to enter natural foods and you are endlessly searching for things that won't come up unless you phrase it exactly as they have entered it. Put something like "pork" in and it'll give you no results unless you can type an exact cut of meat etc. Scoring results could be very hit and miss - one brand of pickled onions would be red, another green. etc.

There is almost no guidance on where to start with eating a personalised Zoe diet. They give you about 10 good and bad foods - based on what you ate in the testing phase, so inevitably you get told not to eat white bagels, which you had to eat a lot of as they were the test of "bad carbs" so you really knew that already. They do nothing to help you discover new good foods. It's just guessing things, putting it into the app and seeing what it says. It has no meal plans or proper recipes - it just links to randomly generated ones on Allrecipes or similar that are American foods, in American measures and have about 30 ingredients that would cost you a week's budget and generate tons of food waste if you had to go buy it all for one plate of food.

The way the app works also means that it encourages you to just add more and more random things onto your plate to bring the score up. I found the mechanics of that pushed me towards bigger portions of foods I wasn't enjoying (everything ended up with random nuts and seeds on top, whether it suited the food or not), rather than helping me find the basic staples I could make normal meals out of. Even though I was reaching the targets Zoe gave me, I ended up gaining weight while eating food I didn't enjoy at all!

What I got out of it was simply that lower carb diets are a better choice for me. Other than that the advice is no better or different from anyone else who recommends real food, fruit and veg, fibre etc - which is basically every diet ever.

Thanks for your clear and detailed feedback. You’ve just saved me hundreds of pounds. I know I have gut troubles and I’m menopausal (through it now thank goodness but my body is very changed as a result). I will gets tested and read up then make my own decisions on food choices. Think I have a gluten problem now and I know my cholesterol is high (I’m on statins). Just need a bit of a nudge in the right direction. I thought Zoe might be it but reading your post and getting the overall sense from everyone’s reponses here that, apart from the tests, it’s not that great, has helped my to make an informed decision. Everyone knows the Mediterranean style of eating is the way to go. I’ve know it for years and still don’t, consistently. I also need to give up wine!