Private School VAT solution?

[HappyCompromise]

I’m seeing a lot of these threads. The arguments getting very toxic.

An idea I had to make it fairer would be introduce the VAT on a rolling basis.

So from whichever date it’s Y7 which has to pay +VAT. The school is allowed to reclaim a 1/7th VAT spend (or whatever that is as a proportion of year groups they service).

Y2 - Years 7 & 8 are now paying. Schools reclaim 2/7ths of their VAT spend?
etc. etc.

So at least the current cohorts can finish their education unhindered.

Would both sides be happy with that?

20% on your school fees represents barely a couple of years. It’s not going to break you to actually pay what’s due and stop behaving like a load of bludgers.

Considering state schools have seen a real-term budget cut of 40% over the lifetime of this government - I suspect private schools may be able to find some similar efficiencies to help reduce the 20% hike rather than passing onto parents. They currently spend 90% more per pupil than state schools.

In the last 15 years there has already been a 20% (in real terms) price increase in private school fees but this has not made any difference to the numbers attending them.

The IFS estimates that £1.5bn additional tax revenue can be generated with this increase with minimal immediate impact to pupil numbers (because of the historic stability of them despite historic rises); that there may be longer term impact to pupil numbers but any revenue raised more than covers any additonal needed to fund those pupils in state school as well as raise the budget for state schools for all pupils; and that tax loss as a result of private pupil numbers shrinking is likely to be minimal because that freed up money ends up being spent on other things that attract VAT anyway.

At a time when we all agree hard choices need to be made, this is no doubt going to be very hard for some individual familes, but at a wider level it's not one that will really change how I'll vote.

Last paragraph nails it for me here. The vast majority of this country have been sidelined since 2010. So excuse us if the vast majority aren't that arsed about the VAT on your private education. And yeah, it does seem that some bad attitudes are formed about the general man in those places about the vast majority of us.

"nietzscheanvibe
But it is about fairness @Brumhilda . Why should any section of society get a VAT reduction on goods or services just because they're financially better off than other sections of society? You don't get a VAT reduction on a new sofa just because you can afford to buy a better sofa than the Joneses down the road."

It's not a VAT reduction for private schools. All education is exempt for VAT across the U.K. (currently), the EU and almost every country in the world. Imposing a sales tax on education would make the U.K. the outlier.

What if parents of kids at private school could reclaim the £6-8k per annum that the tax payer is not spending on their kids schooling? Or even a proportion of it? 20% maybe? It could be done via tax return.
If we are now treating education as a VATable service and no service is being provided, surely a rebate is due?

Absolutely @BarTheShouting why can’t private schools budget more efficiently. Aka cut their cloth according to their coat.
The whole public sector is frequently told to streamline itself despite already running on fresh air. Maybe they need to make savings on other things not necessarily connected to education per se.
UK is already fast becoming an outlier. Only nation to leave the EU and take a huge economic hit. Only nation seriously considering leaving the ECHR..
@Ozanj crikey You don’t use the NHS or state schooling. Do you actually engage with the wider community of ordinary people 😂 (and I don’t include your domestic or your gardener)

Because the more children you put in private school the easier it becomes for countries to manage state school budgets because they pay for private school AND a space (sometimes more) at state school. If rich people began to all send their kids to state schools the infrastructure would crumble.

If rich kids all went to state school things would be very much better funded I think you mean.

Hear hear. Unfortunately many top earner forget this.

I think the only fair way for the VAT to be mitigated is for those schools to cut back, just live every other school in this country.

There are plenty of “rich people” at state schools, what on earth are you talking about?

If you want to pay for a particular kind of experience for your child at school of course you should be able to. Why should the rest of us subsidise that?

It's just a better way of getting there

Getting to the same end result? 🙄

Okaaaaaaay.

It's not a "luxury" as many ordianry people that work in factories do overtime, 6/7 days a week, 12 hour shits to get the kid into a private school in the hope they will do better than them

Or the system in some Scandinavian countries ... state gives similar amount to private and state schools per student ... introducing competition
No VAT either

If they did that here the state education sector would be just for the poorest of society like in India, as there’d be a private school for every budget.

The top 10% pay 99.9% of all tax in the UK including vat. So people shouldn’t really dismiss them.

Do you have any evidence for that because it stretches credibility that it could possibly be the case.

State school level of argumentation.

I can see why you're struggling.

Which factory is this ? 😂 Gosh you’re funny.

And there in one post is the sense of arrogance encapsulated. We can’t all be adept debaters like Eton educated Rishi 🙄

💯 per cent THIS @Ozanj . We saw during multiple lockdowns that some of the most important people who keep society functioning are also some of the least privileged among us, but the wealthier often can't see past their own entitlement (with rare exceptions like @Pin0cchio ).

This.

Ultimately, this policy will not generate any money and might even cost money and put extra strain on the state school system. So the motive is purely to stoke class wars. As demonstrated by the countless threads on it.

It's not responsible fiscal management of public money, it's purely intended to get people to think that voting Labour means "rich" people get their come-uppence. Again, as shown by the nasty comments by many on these threads.

Ultimately, this policy will not generate any money and might even cost money and put extra strain on the state school system. So the motive is purely to stoke class wars. As demonstrated by the countless threads on it.

"Our assumed central scenario for the marginal cost of educating an extra pupil implies a need for an extra £100–300 million per year. Our best judgement is therefore that removing tax exemptions would probably have a net gain to the public finances of about £1.3–£1.5 billion per year, after accounting for likely tax revenues and spending needs. This would allow for about a 2% increase in day-to-day spending on state schools in England."

The IFS judgement on whether it will raise money is that it will raise between £1.3-1.5bn per year, even when taking into account the extra cost to the state system.

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/tax-private-school-fees-and-state-school-spending

Well at least you're trying

i am not familiar with the Indian system - do private schools get subsidised in that way, competing for students with the private sector?
And, if you, why would you think that the UK experience would mirror the Indian rather than the Danish experience?

If they’re doing 12 hour shits they need a doctor not overtime.