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Genealogy

Ancestry DNA Update 2025

72 replies

FortuneFaded · 12/10/2025 00:56

Anyone else not impressed with the Ancestry DNA test 2025 update and the UK regions?

I look after several DNA accounts, and many have lost significant DNA percentages to now be more English. One has gone from 27% Germanic Europe to 0%, and another has lost Denmark and Scandinavia to be more Cornish.
It doesn’t feel useful at all.

OP posts:
FortuneFaded · 21/10/2025 02:30

Seaitoverthere · 20/10/2025 22:27

Mine’s gone a bit weird. My Bristol and Somerset links through my Dad have gone and he has got 1% of the Germans in Russia. Which I guess shouldn’t be a surprise as some of his matches go back to a group in Quebec who are linked to the Mennonites. His side appeared to be quite accurate before this latest update.

There’s something a bit strange going on with my Dad’s DNA though as instead of him being marked paternal (after I assigned parent 1 and 2) Ancestry have marked him as being ‘both sides’ - somehow his line seems to have crossed with my Mum’s family who are from Germany. I have just used Ancestry.de to send a test to my Aunt in Germany and I hope it may shed some light on it.

That is weird. My Mum’s DNA has me as both sides, as I’m her child. When I log into my account it has her as maternal side as I identified her as that.

I don’t like this new update at all. I ran my DNA through MyHeritage and they have totally different results for areas. Ancestry has me as 1% Canary Islands! Spanish Armada shipwrecked shaggers in my family tree or weird glitch!

OP posts:
NameChangeForThisQuestionOnly · 21/10/2025 03:08

It’s been almost a decade since I did my dna test and the results have changed several times over those years. When I first got my results I was really interested in it and spent a lot of time looking further and researching areas. But now it’s so changed I no longer hold any value in the results, it’s meaningless.
First/original results - 70% mix of different Scandinavian, 25% total of mix of European, 5% English
Current results - 35% Welsh, 35% English, some Scottish, 5% Denmark

TimetodoEverything · 22/10/2025 08:32

The 1% are within the margin of error (ie could just as easily be 0%), so are best ignored.

But it undermines belief in the results when they tell you “these are your DNA origins” and then a year later they make material changes. And again and again.

FortuneFaded · 24/10/2025 23:53

TimetodoEverything · 22/10/2025 08:32

The 1% are within the margin of error (ie could just as easily be 0%), so are best ignored.

But it undermines belief in the results when they tell you “these are your DNA origins” and then a year later they make material changes. And again and again.

Absolutely this.

OP posts:
BooneyBeautiful · 25/10/2025 00:36

manicpixieschemegirl · 12/10/2025 01:57

Mine used to be 74% Scottish with strong links to the Central Belt and Orkney, and 26% Irish with no specific regions identified.

It’s now 87% Scottish and Northern Irish with strong links to the Central Belt but Orkney is gone, and 13% Donegal specifically. Not sure what to make of it.

Has anyone used any companies other than ancestry? I think 23andme regions are slightly different and the two don’t always align.

I used MyHeritage. Their latest update breaks down my ethnicity much further. A few years ago I started with three ethnicities, but now there is in excess of ten!

CalmShaker · 25/10/2025 00:57

A friend had their result back informing of a 15% Scottish link. This caused mentioned friend to drink and become an alcoholic. Therefore, there may be some truth to this DNA service .

ChessorBuckaroo · 25/10/2025 01:14

ForPearlViper · 15/10/2025 16:31

I think the issue may be in the explanations of what the 'Origins' section of Ancestry actually means. As far as I am aware it reflects the movements of people in much earlier times than most people can trace their family tree with any degree of accuracy, even back to ancient times. If the bits of DNA related to the geographical origins don't distinguish between different parts of a modern country (when I say modern it could be many centuries), say Scotland, its because there is no measurable difference in the relevant DNA marker across those different parts.

What it is effectively saying is that your DNA reflects the DNA typically found in this area. That area might have been invaded and/or settled numerous times by groups - Romans, Normans, Vikings, Anglo Saxons, movement between Ireland and the modern UK and so on - with those groups themselves historically having moved from somewhere else. Hence a bit of Nordic, Germanic, etc, origin being detected. Whilst different regions may have more or less heritage from those incomers, eg, Vikings in the North East, for the most part mapping modern countries or regions, especially the small countries we are talking about, is never going to be particularly helpful. This is why the DNA/genealogy companies all differ a bit in how they slice and dice it.

I was quite pleased with what they've done re Ireland. As a PP highlighted, the ancient province of Ulster was heavily populated by people from Scotland. My Mum's paternal family were from up near the border and, despite a tree going back centuries in that particular county of Ireland her original report had barely any 'Irish' DNA on the paternal side, it was all Scotland. If you previously didn't understand the high level of movement between these places, the new classification clarifies that.

I do understand why people might not be pleased but whatever sites like Ancestry do is, at best, going to be a guestimate.

Apologies if this is not as clear as I wanted - I'm a bit jaded due to having to explain DNA, on which I have a tenuous grasp, to a 90 year old - 'imagine each of your grandparents had a big bag of pick and mix sweets'.....

Irish and Scots share a common ethnicity (not including Ulster Scots dating from the plantation) that goes back to the middle ages.

My own surname (which isn't O'...) is among the most common in both regions.

Halloween next week, its origin is from both regions.

My mum's maiden name is popular in Wales so no doubt there is a Celtic link with there also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaels

Gaels - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaels

WishinAndHopin · 25/10/2025 01:16

Mine isn't not accurate per se, but my mum's is inaccurate and doesn't correspond with mine at all.

For example I'm 3.125% German from the north west, and my DNA shows 5% NW German (the rest could be because DNA is inherited randomly so could have got more from my German ancestor, or it could be from ancient Saxons, or just because the English are genetically similar to Germans).

However, my mum is 6.25% NW German and all she has on the test is 1% Germans in Russia, implying that my supposed German genetics came from my English Dad.

The great majority of our Celtic DNA is central Scotland and Northern Ireland, despite having no known ancestors from either region.

Interpink · 25/10/2025 01:38

Can someone with good crayons explain to me what’s happened? Has the data set got more or less accurate and precise? Surely the more people’s dna they have, the more accurate their results are? Or is that nonsense?

Interpink · 25/10/2025 01:41

The way I imagined it is, you have a big bowl of cake mix and in that mix there is some coloured red, and blue, and green etc and everyone in the family gets a random glob of it. So my glob meant I have blue eyes but my siblings got a different glob and got green. Or whatever. The colours are swirled. Like plasticine before it all goes poo coloured.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2025 14:57

Interpink · 25/10/2025 01:38

Can someone with good crayons explain to me what’s happened? Has the data set got more or less accurate and precise? Surely the more people’s dna they have, the more accurate their results are? Or is that nonsense?

They have changed their methodology over the years.

They originally did it solely on DNA samples and used key profiles who had clear genetic profiles. These are what they call 'reference panels' then compared people to these points and how much DNA they shared.

This recent update is a little more complex. They've used reference panels AND they've used the data from peoples profile in a more complex way - they've used networks of people based on how they are genetically linked as well as using some data from users trees to connect these networks to specific places.

They have a white paper explaining it all:
https://www.ancestrycdn.com/support/us/2025/10/2025ancestralregionswhitepaper.pdf

If you read their methodology, it's a bit like picking a tree out from a particular wood and labelling it as the correct species without actually looking at it, on the basis of probability. You know which species of trees have been identified in this particular wood and would expect to find in that wood. The difficulty is getting the exact correct species rather than a very closely related species on the basis of probability. Your tree will be surrounded by lots of other trees of a particular species but your tree could be a closely related species and thus difficult to pick out as an individual.
(See figure 2.1 from the white paper for an illustration of my tree analogy).

My trees are probably pretty useful to Ancestry in that I've used pro-tools and then actively linked other users backed on DNA relationships and paperwork to my trees. (The link to tree feature rather just using predicted common ancestor feature). Each of my DNA trees has about 200-300 linked individuals with full paperwork trails now.

My profiles are probably pretty accurate precisely because of the extensive linking in I've done. It clarifies whether an ancestry prediction of expected relationship to a more accurate relationship. For example it's the difference between predicting it's a potential half 1st Cousin 1x removed, 1st cousin 2x removed, half great grandniece, 2nd cousin or half great grandaunt and KNOWING that it's a 2nd cousin and how.

If enough people within the same network do the same and reinforce this same connection, then ancestry starts to give greater weight to the probability of that information being accurate and how all the individuals network together. Even if my profiles aren't on the reference panels, my matches might be, so my work is useful for them. (Ancestry should also be able to pick up on errors to a certain extent within this). You then have both the DNA and the paperwork showing the same thing and again crucially how rather than estimates.

I suspect that if you happen to be closely related to a profile picked as one for their reference panel you are also more likely to have more accurate results - and you'll see some disparity in accuracy of results between those close to reference panel profiles and those furthest away from those reference points because you have to do more estimation.

It is true that the more people's data you have the better the results you get generally. You have more reference points and more network connections that can be linked up. Again the problem is where you have people with intercrossing trees creating noise. Sometimes it demonstrates a double connection with that area (so you know that intermarriage in that community and a narrow gene pool is a feature of that community) other times it just confuses the issue because a match is related to you in multiple ways from different lines making it harder for Ancestry to distinguish between the two. My Dad appears to be picking up matches that he's related to in Utah BUT also people related to them but not my Dad - I think it's something to do with this problem.

You can hit slightly incorrect data or odd artifacts of DNA from how they appear in sequence - you get one small sector representing A next to one which represents B from two separate ancestors but in sequence A next to B looks like C which is a DNA signature that is often found in an unrelated population or makes you potentially look related to someone you aren't.

This is particularly true within communities which come from smaller gene pools (not necessarily marriages of biological cousins but equally a small number of families marrying into a small number of families over a course of several generations creating multiple networks of how people are connected which are more difficult to unpick).

Ancestry themselves have said using customer trees alone is problematic hence why they've combined it with looking at DNA but as I say this also isn't without issue either.

There's still the problem of NEP events several generations ago - that are within closed communities from a close relative which would be hard to spot but would affect the data you get in terms of a profile for an ethnicity. If your reference points are slightly off, it has an impact on all your predictions. It comes back to whether they've got the right samples in their reference panel or not.

Last update they definitely got things wrong connected to the Shetlands, Isle of Wight and Italy I believe. They are much better this update. The last update did however improve issues with identifying German / Scandinavian DNA which were off from the 2023 update. What you see is sometimes they take a step backwards on one ethnicity for an update, but that does seem to usually get corrected at the next one.

The DNA profiles I managed are pretty spot on for location with the exception of the one which lacks Isle of Man. Instead it's showing as Northern Irish/Central Scotland which I don't think is wildly off. It's still in the right ballpark of closely linked ethnicities, perhaps with a deeper shared history. I expect to see this improve in future.

You also need to keep in mind that previous updates were really heavily caveted. A couple of the Germanic and Scandinavian ones basically said 'also found it England' meaning that you weren't part Swedish at all - you had a DNA signature that was most often found in Sweden but was also very common in modern English populations. It's a English signature. Lots of people really don't understand this. They get upset that they've 'lost' the Swedish (viking) they really never had and it undermines their trust in what Ancestry says.

There also a certain amount of snobbery and preference for 'interesting' results. Getting a result saying you are likely from the East Midlands really doesn't sound as cool as Denmark - yet it might still represent migration from the Vikings as the East Midlands is identifiably different from areas that didn't have viking migration.

My mum is now down to 2% Danish which I suspect in future updates will eventually disappear as they identify it as a distinct East Midlands signature. I think it was about 7% at one point. The same goes for my Dad where 2% Norway and 1% Sweden with turn out to be bits of his Highland and Yorkshire ancestries.

It's not made up shit. There is logic to it all, but I definitely think the range of accuracy varies a lot from one person to another for understandable and legitimate reasons.

https://www.ancestrycdn.com/support/us/2025/10/2025ancestralregionswhitepaper.pdf

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2025 15:02

Btw I should point out that you are NOT related to everyone of your matches. Some are false matches.

I didn't realise this for a long time.

AInightingale · 25/10/2025 15:53

@RedToothBrush is it the case that you might inherit more DNA via a female ancestor than a male? I have second cousin matches with quite striking variations in cM. The highest amounts seem occur in matches with grandmothers descended from shared g-grandparents. It's also a region with a very small gene pool, mind-bogglingly so. Do women and men pass down DNA differently?

deeahgwitch · 25/10/2025 16:44

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2025 15:02

Btw I should point out that you are NOT related to everyone of your matches. Some are false matches.

I didn't realise this for a long time.

Explain please @RedToothBrush

RedToothBrush · 26/10/2025 09:54

AInightingale · 25/10/2025 15:53

@RedToothBrush is it the case that you might inherit more DNA via a female ancestor than a male? I have second cousin matches with quite striking variations in cM. The highest amounts seem occur in matches with grandmothers descended from shared g-grandparents. It's also a region with a very small gene pool, mind-bogglingly so. Do women and men pass down DNA differently?

No. It's complete chance and isn't males v females.

This is a bit of an illustration of what happens. Hopefully this is readable. It's oversimplified with four 'blue genes' and four 'red genes'. The numbers represent individual people you inherit a gene from. So A1, B1, C1 and D1 are known to come from Mr Red and A2, B2, C2 and D2 are known to come from Miss Red. Your grandfather is Mr3 and so he has an A, B, C, D3 and each new person in the tree has an individual number. By the time you get to the fourth generation you have eleven numbers for each ABCD gene and they get all mixed up.

Mr Blue from the East Midlands marries Miss Red from Munster Ireland. By chance 'You' has inherited two red genes from your great grandmother, but your second cousin 'Gail' has inherited two blue genes from your great grandfather. Gail wouldn't be a match DNA to you because of the DNA markers you have inherited are different to hers, but both of you can be identified as descendants of Mr Blue and Miss Red from your common matches to draw a tree. Gail would match with some of your matches even though she doesn't match with you. From this you can essentially identify 'the code' for the East Midlands.

Frank on the other had actually shares no DNA with you and he's not inherited DNA from either great grandparent so also wouldn't match with you. He also wouldnt have a marker for the East Midlands or Munster. But he's still related to you and has ancestry from them, just not necessarily the ethnicity.

deeahgwitch think of the above.

Ancestry looks for sections of code that looks the same - this it can produce false positives in effect. You can have situations where someone else can have a segment of code that looks like it's related to you because they have a similar sequence - but actually it's made up of bits from unrelated individuals. Thus getting matches who are unrelated to you.

This is much more likely with smaller cMs because your closest matches have higher cMs because they have longer individual segments of matching DNA code.

By the same token if you have a match who is say is your second cousin but also your third cousin from another relation, it screws up the cM value and makes them look on the surface more closely related than they actually are. Which can really foil you.

In theory one of Mr Blues descendants is on a reference panel and they work out that Code A1, B1, C1, D1 is a East Midlands 'postcode' from him and his DNA matches and tree.

BUT each of his four markers can also be found in other areas. When calculating ethnicity ancestry tries to match people from their DNA code to people on their reference panel but they may have missing bits of information / incorrect information, so there's an element of calculating what it should be on the basis of probability. Thus it shouldn't be a surprise if you get an ethnicity which is effectively 'the next door neighbour'. Ancestry knows what neighbourhood you might be in but gets the address slightly wrong.

It's basically a scrambling effect and a recombination effect which can lead to mismatches and slightly misleading information. And issues with ethnicity tend to be a result of trying to fill in the gaps of unknown information and unknown relationships.

It's obviously a lot more complex than this, but hopefully it gives a basic illustration of it and the complexities of it.

I'm sure other people can give other better explanations as it's difficult to explain as it gets complicated very quickly.

Ancestry DNA Update 2025
deeahgwitch · 26/10/2025 10:33

Thank you @RedToothBrush

AInightingale · 26/10/2025 11:15

Yes I know all about those endlessly criss-crossing families and the havoc it wreaks on predictions! Curse you, endogamy! Thanks @RedToothBrush.

deeahgwitch · 01/11/2025 09:55

In the new Ancestry Update where do they consider Manchester UK is ?

strawgoh · 01/11/2025 13:09

This all makes me glad I've never bothered getting mine done.

Another2Cats · 01/11/2025 19:57

deeahgwitch · 01/11/2025 09:55

In the new Ancestry Update where do they consider Manchester UK is ?

Broadly speaking, it's "North West England & Northern Wales" but within that there are smaller subdivisions such as "Greater Manchester".

My parents both have the "West Midlands" as the largest individual percentage, but that is quite a large area stretching from Sheffield in the north to Gloucester in the south and Shrewsbury in the west to almost as far as Peterborough (two miles short) in the east.

That is such a large area as to be quite meaningless. But there is another tool that is quite useful, it's called "Ancestral Journeys" or it's labelled as just "Journeys"

For example, my mum has 47% West Midlands, but looking at her "ancestral journey", it is largely centred in the smaller area of "Gloucestershire & Northern Wiltshire" which does in fact coincide very closely with what I know about her family tree.

In contrast, my dad has two "ancestral journeys". One, like my mum, is based in "Gloucestershire & Northern Wiltshire" and the other is in "Worcestershire, Warwickshire & West Midlands Area" this latter one is basically going from Birmingham down to Gloucester. The two areas do overlap though. Again, this matches very well with what I know of his family tree.

When I look at my own "ancestral journeys", it's no surprise to see that I have the same two ancestral journeys as my parents. But what is slightly different is that it is much more focused on the overlapping part of those two areas.

This is a very small region that goes from Much Marcle, Herefordshire in the west, 30 miles to Stow-on-the-Wold in the east. And from Upton-upon-Severn, Worcestershire in the north down to a line that splits Gloucester in half, just south of Gloucester docks. Although, the actual line I think is rather arbitrary as it does seem to include people born in Gloucester south of that line.
.

In contrast, regions in other parts of the world can be very much larger indeed. I'm always surprised by how much larger they are.

For example, the equivalent to something like the "West Midlands" in the USA might be something like "Baja California Peninsula & The California Coast".

This covers all of California and Nevada, most of Utah and Arizona and about a half each of Oregon and Idaho. It also covers about three quarters of Mexico as well.

Just for context, California by itself is 75% bigger than the whole of the UK.

There are smaller areas within that of course, like "San Luis Obispo to San Francisco, California" which is about 230 miles from north to south. It's basically the Californian coast from San Francisco down to about 100 miles north of Los Angeles.

But, to be fair, not all US regions are as big as that, especially on the east coast. For example, there is the "Delaware & Chesapeake Bay Settlers" which basically covers Delaware, Maryland and eastern Virginia.

Within this area there are smaller areas such as "Central Maryland Settlers" which runs from Annapolis, Anne Arundel County in the north, 40 miles south to Drum Point.

As the term "settlers" indicates, many of these people trace their ancestry back to settlers who came from the UK and elsewhere back in the 1600s and 1700s.

Another2Cats · 01/11/2025 20:41

AInightingale · 26/10/2025 11:15

Yes I know all about those endlessly criss-crossing families and the havoc it wreaks on predictions! Curse you, endogamy! Thanks @RedToothBrush.

"Curse you, endogamy!"

Endogamy may certainly screw up Ancestry predictions but it certainly does help to identify DNA matches further back. You just have to assume that they are rather further back than Ancestry are claiming.

Just as an example, early US settlers were generally quite an endogamous population.

On one branch of my DH's family he had one relative, Nathaniel, go over to Maryland in the late 1650s/early 1660s (he married in Maryland in 1665). DH is descended from his brother who stayed here in England.

Then there was also the first cousin once removed of that Nathaniel (so, his cousin's son, who confusingly was also named Nathaniel) who also went over to Maryland sometime in the 1690s (he married in Maryland in 1702). DH is descended from a cousin of that Nathaniel's father.

He has four DNA matches connected to the elder Nathaniel and one DNA match connected through the younger Nathaniel.

What also makes a difference is that there was certainly some endogamy going on with the side of his family that stayed in this country. There were certainly some first and second cousin marriages going on back in the past in his family tree on both sides of the Atlantic.

Seaitoverthere · 01/11/2025 23:03

I’m working with one of my DNA matches to find his parents, his paternal line is particularly difficult and an Ancestry pro declined to take his case. We have over 100 of his matches linked together in a large tree, we’re at 4.5 years of searching so far and think there is a long way to go unless we get a lucky break with someone close to him testing.

We both have loads Mennonites, Palantines and French Canadian so high levels of endogamy and it is making the whole thing so much harder. I am very jealous of people who have decent matches in countries without difficult privacy laws (Germany). I’m not giving up though, I want him to know eventually and regally hope he will .

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