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Genealogy

Where and when are you right now?

56 replies

Ylfa · 06/01/2022 10:05

Anyone up for a little general family history chat? I’ve been stuck for a while in 1864 in a notorious Virginia prison with a great great great uncle and fancy a change of scenery.

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Bobbobbobbing · 06/01/2022 17:12

@PastMyBestBeforeDate ooh thank you- that's really useful to know. I'd love it if I could crack this mystery for my dad as the rest of his family is all Irish and much harder to track.

Red- smugglers sounds fascinating. Some of Mum's lot were on the other side. My g grandfather was a customs man up in Newcastle. His job title was Rummager- rifling through the cargo to find contraband. That branch of the family has kids late. I'm 42 and g grandfather was born in 1865. His father (my gg grandfather) in 1817 Shock

RedToothBrush · 06/01/2022 17:49

So heartbreaking, you can’t imagine. Do you see any echoes of it in subsequent generations?

DH is related to one of the second families. By all accounts it would explain in part some of his Dad's experiences.

I've actually been tracing part of his DH's great grandmother's family this week (the woman who abandoned 3 of her kids).

Disfunctionality, early bereavment and abandonment goes back as far as I have managed to research - to the 1830s on her mother's side of the family. Its absoluetely desparate.

Going down from this woman and into DH's more recent family - we think his Dad has been the only one of his siblings, parents, aunts and uncles who seems to have kept the family unit together.

DH and I were talking about it all earlier today - I think it gave both me and DH something of a new found respect for his Dad (who isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination) in managing to break out of both the poverty and the cycle of family breakdown.

Having looked into the story of one of the two boys who was abandoned today, its interesting. Lets just say the family who adopted him were extremely poor and had a massive amount of bad luck (bereveament) themselves during this period - it explains why he was taken on but it also must have been a dreadfully difficult thing to take on another mouth. The adoptive mother must have been a hell of a woman with a massive heart.

Time and again I've seen how just one incident (like the death of a father) does seem to screw up generations. Its extremely sobering.

RedToothBrush · 06/01/2022 18:14

Also interesting - two grandsons of the main smuggler became policemen. In the 1830s. So amongst the first police ever!

Again, can't help but think there is a chain of causality!

Ylfa · 11/01/2022 12:38

That must have been satisfying to crack, and fascinating to infer whatever you want from the grandchildren and their career choices!

I have been in the 1921 census too, only have one British grandparent to research and she was a slippery one but at last I have an address - it’s a nature reserve now but I will visit soon because it’s just a couple of hours drive from where I live.

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BobBobBobbing · 24/07/2022 09:29

Just coming back to this thread to say I solved my mystery! I was looking for my g g grandfather- an Edward Jones from Wales. Turns out to be rather different.

He turned out to have been born in Manchester and lived on the Wirral- although they were of Welsh extraction. He was always in trouble with the law- lots of newspaper articles about fighting and stealing. He joined the army and got posted to Ireland where he met gg grandma and married her. He was eventually jailed and thrown out of the army. It looks as though they then went to Cardiff where he quite possibly abandoned them. He eventually settled back on the Wirral and gets married to someone else and "forgetting" that he was married previously by declaring himself a bachelor on that marriage certificate. He had lots of daughters and joined the navy briefly (kicked out after a few months). He re-enlisted in the army and died at the battle of the Somme. He also changed his name regularly (possibly to do with his trouble with the law). He went by Jones, Waring-Jones and ultimately just Waring.

I've got DNA matches through one of his daughters, a brother and his mothers family. I was particularly pleased to find his naval record detailing his tattoos- including a shamrock and gg grandmother's initial and surname.

Luckily DF thought it funny that our long lost ancestor turned out to be a complete rogue. Said it explained a lot about DGM's family Grin

TressiliansStone · 24/07/2022 10:50

Shock What a result!

Ylfa · 24/07/2022 13:47

That’s so cool! What a colourful life he had. How did you crack the case?!

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BobBobBobbing · 24/07/2022 14:23

I knew his father was called William Jones and he was a plasterer so had been searching the census to try and find an Edward Jones whose father was William and a plasterer. Found lots but researching the families there was always something that didn't match. I then tried from the other direction- searching for a William Jones, plasterer.

Then I found this record that showed a William Jones, plasterer, living with a son called Edward Waring on the Wirral. That Edward was married, but it was a fairly recent marriage so I thought I dig a bit into the family. I knew my Edward's middle initial was W from the marriage certificate. We'd all thought it was William as his son was Edward William. But I wondered if it could be Waring instead.

I knew there were 2 regiments who had been stationed in Fermoy at the relevant time, one of them being from Lancashire. Searching for Edward Waring Jones gave me proof that he was in that regiment and some prison records from Cork at the right time showed that he'd definitely been there!

I then searched DNA matches and found links with that family, but was still only 75% sure I'd got the right one. There's a heck of a lot of Joneses about! One of the DNA matches had a photo of him in naval uniform and his naval record. That showed me the detail about the tattoos which convinced me it was the right one.

All of this would have been solved a lot quicker if he'd just used his full name on the marriage certificate in the first place Grin

Now I'm onto the Welsh border in 1800 trying to find a a family for Samuel Smith and which one of 2 Hannah's he married. This might take me another few years to solve...

Ylfa · 24/07/2022 15:53

Some seriously impressive sleuthing there! Good luck with Mr Smith 😅 Do you find you get a certain feeling when you’re on the right track, even before the facts can be verified? Don’t know how to describe it, a sense of rightness, a sort of knowing?

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BobBobBobbing · 24/07/2022 16:52

Not quite knowing, but something keeps drawing me back to particular families. On another branch everyone else had a particular man as ggggg grandma's father but it just didn't feel right so I kept going back and trying to unpick it. Luckily that family were big fans of using previous generations surnames as middle names. I've been picking away and think I've got a link that proves the connection to a completely different man. Just waiting on the will which I hope will be the final bit.

The weirdest feeling though was when we went on holiday to Yorkshire a while back. I can't describe what it was like but I felt I belonged on this particular hill. Nothing that special about it! Never thought we had a family connection to Yorkshire but a few years later an ancestor popped up with a really unusual name. I googled and found that the suggested origin for it was that specific hill. Really spooky coincidence!

Ylfa · 25/07/2022 17:01

Love that! Found much of my biological family via intuition first, which is hard to explain because it was all needles/haystacks, then confirmed with dna matching. Never had that sense of belonging to a place though. Definitely drawn to particular families, in fact I’m only one generation up from where I was when starting this thread.

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SwedishEdith · 25/07/2022 17:15

Just reading this and remembering how satisfying it is when you can finally work something out - something that was baffling suddenly all falls into place.

I've cancelled my Ancestry account for the last year as too many brick walls. A GG grandfather and family who are on every census except 1881 and a GGG grandmother with no father's name on the marriage certificate and untraceable in birth records. And that's the English ones. Over 75% of my ancestors are Irish so, mostly untraceable before 1865ish.

BobBobBobbing · 25/07/2022 17:42

Irish ancestors are a special kind of torture. I could weep when I think of all the destroyed records and what knowledge we have lost as a result.

Mind, DF's DNA is 90% Irish and allocated to the north cork, south cork, central cork, east cork, west cork and Munster communities so I get the impression we didn't move around a lot Grin

Good luck to everyone struggling with brick walls and needles in haystacks. May we find the elusive ancestors eventually and promptly find the next brick wall to bang our heads against

hollyivysaurus · 26/07/2022 19:43

I enjoyed reading through these even those most of the posts are a few months old! I’m currently working on tracing loads of my Ontario family (from 1800’s immigrants to more recent descendants) to try and figure out DNA matches, aiming to make some connections in Ireland. It’s a bit of a mammoth project though but I’m really enjoying it!

Prokupatuscrakedatus · 27/07/2022 19:12

I love to read about your research.
I have reached the beginning of records for almost all my DC's ancestors - so about 1650 to 1600, with some hints into the past.
There are two lines where I am stuck at 1900 and 1870 respectively, both from the same city - the documents were very probably lost in the air raids.

And nothing very interesting about them - farm hands, serfs, farmers, miners and craftsmen.

Interesting aspects:
Some of my ancestors managed to live in three different countries without ever leaving their tiny village.
Or the "Dedrich" I was looking for suddenly turned into a Thierry because of Napoelon. And because of his reforms my Frisian ancestor went into the mairie on 23.12.1811 to take a heritable family name.

minisoksmakehardwork · 31/07/2022 00:57

Stuck in 1859 ish on my paternal grandfather's side of the family - trying to work out his grandfather. But until Scotland's people release the 1921 census I think that confirmation is going to be stuck there as I need dates of birth and there's nothing to go on yet.

Got as far as 1741 on Husband's side. One branch of the family needs a birth certificate to confirm whether it's person A or person B who is the mother - other family think one and I think the other.

And, I think I may have turned up a skeleton in the closet as my own grandmother appears to have been married before she married my grandfather. Sadly I cannot ask her about it as she's deceased. So marriage certificate on the way too.

I've properly fallen down the family tree rabbit hole over the summer holidays and turning it into a project for the children too. The girls in particular are very interested.

Ylfa · 31/07/2022 15:34

I love reading about all the research too, and it’s especially heartening to hear of younger generations getting involved. Feel a bit stuck while various subscriptions (eg ancestry.com) are paused, and I’m thousands of miles away from all my genetic communities. A time machine would be so good!

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JoanThursday · 04/10/2022 07:36

I know this thread is a few months old now, but loving these stories. Family history is fascinating.

My current puzzle only goes back to 1914. My paternal grandmother's parents married and had children very young (she was only 17). By the age of 25, she had four children and was living in the ining community in the Welsh valleys. Her husband (my great grandfather) went off to war in 1914, did very well for himself and, according to the local papers of the time, was made up to a Sergeant Major to great local acclaim.

Then ... he just drops off. By the time of the 1921 census, my Ggrandmother is the Head of the household and living with the man next door! They lived out their lives together and are buried in the same grave. She is using his surname by this point but they were never married.

So what happened to Ggfather? My aunt briefly remembers him coming back to see them in the early 1940s but he disappears again. I can't find him on the 1921 census or the 1939 lists. No one alive now has any knowledge, and those that did (and now passed away) would never talk about it.

I think I have his army service number from forces records as the details match those in the news report. Military record is my next step. But apart from that I'm stumped!!

Ylfa · 04/10/2022 09:22

Psychiatric hospital for shell shock? Perhaps he came back blind or paralysed or something.

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TressiliansStone · 04/10/2022 10:25

Yes, I've seen someone who survived in a psychiatric hospital until the 1950s after being discharged from the army for insanity in WWI.

I hope the military record tells you something.

There's also a database on Ancestry (if it's still there) called "UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects" which could hold something useful from the years after his main military record stops. This is where I found the ongoing details of the chap above, whose army pension was administered by his brother.

JoanThursday · 05/10/2022 08:16

Thanks @Ylfa and @TressiliansStone - great food for thought there!

Physically, he was (relatively) well I think, because he resurfaced in the 1940s and there are no stories of him being badly injured and i think there would be. But I hadn't thought of him possibly being in a psychiatric hospital.

He might have stayed in the army after ww1 - he seemed to be a bit of a career soldier. The key is definitely in the military record. I just hope the service number I have is for him!

Ylfa · 05/10/2022 11:33

Please update us with whatever clues the military records hold - it must be safe to assume he was not the same person when he returned. It could also be interesting to find out in a more general sense what sorts of outcomes other Welsh veterans of WW1 experienced.

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TressiliansStone · 20/10/2022 10:53

Well! I am now being pursued by the whole French fleet off Toulon while being indefatigible in my endeavours to obtain intelligence about the enemy!

The year is 1805, I am aboard HMS Active – and I rather suspect my captain, Richard Hussey Moubray (later Richard Hussey Hussey), to be one of the models for Patrick O'Brian's Capt Jack Aubrey...

TressiliansStone · 20/10/2022 10:57

NAVAL BIOGRAPHY. The late Richard Hussey Hussey (formerly Moubray), K. C. B., Vice-Admiral of the Red. This officer descended from an ancient family in Flfeshire, was second and youngest son of Robert Moubray, M.D., proprietor of the lands of Cockairny, in that county, by Arabella, youngest daughter of Thomas Hussey, of Wrexham, in Denbighshire, Esquire. He was born at Devonport, March 16, 1776, and commenced his naval career, as a midshipman, on board the Impregnable, 98 guns, bearing the flag of his relative, the late Sir Richard Bickerton, Bart., in 1789. At the time of the Spanish armament, 1790, that ship formed part of the grand fleet under Earl Howe. During the ensuing three years, he served successfully in the Pegasus and Andromeda frigates, and Europa, 50 guns, on the Newfoundland, Channel, and Jamaica stations; and in the latter was present at the capture of Jeremie, and Cape Nichola Mole, Saint Domingo, by Commodore Ford, and Lieut. Colonel Whitelocke, September 20 and 23, 1793. By the former officer, with whom he had proceeded to the West Indies in the preceding year, Mr. Moubray was soon after promoted to the rank of Lieutenant, in the Magicienne, 32 guns. From that frigate, he returned to the Europa, still carrying the Commdore’s broad pendant, and was first Lieutenant of her at the capture of Port-au-Prince. On the 9th of June, 1794, five days after the surrender of that important place, Mr. Moubray was appointed to command the Fly sloop-of-war, and ordered to convey Capt. Rowley and Lieut. Colonel Whitelocke, the bearers of the despatches relative thereto, to England. In the ensuing month of December. we find him escorting H. R. H. the Duke of York from Helveotsluys to Harwich; and, subsequently, assisting at the capture of two Dutch line-of-battle ships, a frigate, two sloops of war, nine East lndiamen, and about sixty other vessels in Plymouth Sound. He was afterwards employed in convoying the trade to and from Gibraltar, and the different ports in the Channel. Capt. Moubray's post commission bears date 10th April, 1797; from which period he served as a volunteer with Sir Richard Bickerton, in the Ramillies and Terrible, seventy four's, till that officer’s promotion to a flag, 14th February, 1799. In 1801, he obtained the command of the Maidstone frigate; and in the following year was sent to the Mediterranean wit despatches relative to the ratification of the treaty of Amiens. Soon after the renewal of hostilities, in 1803, our officer captured the French brig-of-war l'Arab, eight guns, 58 men, from Athens, laden with antiques for the Consular Government. On the 1st of August following, he was appointed by Lord Nelson to the Active, 38 guns, employed principally as a frigate of observation off Toulon —a service requiring the utmost vigilance and activity; during his continuance can which he was repeatedly chased away by the enemy's squadron. On the 18th January, 1805, the Active and Seahorse were pursued by the whole French fleet, but fortunately effected their escape, although at one time within gunshot; and the next day communicated the intelligence to Lord Nelson, who was then lying at anchor between the Madelena Islands, situated to the northward of Sardinia. From that period till month of April, when it was at length ascertained that Admiral Villeneuve had proceeded down the Mediterranean, Capt. Moubray was indefatigable in his endeavours to obtain information respecting their destination. He was then despatched with the intelligence to the fleets stationed off Brest and Ireland. After cruising for some time on the Irish station where he captured Les Amis, a French letter-of-marque, our officer was again ordered to the Mediterranean. Early in 1807, he accompanied Sir John T. Duckworth to the Dardanelles, where he greatly distinguished himself in the battle of Point Pesquies. The Active on that occasion, alter sustaining for some time the fire of several other Turkish vessels, drove on shore and blew up a frigate of the Iargest class, with which she had been closely, engaged. Returning through the Dardanelies, in company with the fleet, 3rd March, 1807, the Active received a granite shot weighing 800 pounds, and measuring 6 feet 6 inches in circumference, which passed through her side two feet above the water, and lodged on the orlop deck, close to the magazine scuttle, without injuring a man. The aperture made by it was so wide, that Capt. Moubray, on looking over the side to ascertain what damage it had done, saw two of his crew thrusting their heads through at the same moment. Had there been a necessity for hauling to the wind on the opposite tack, she must have gone down. The Active, during the whole of these operations, had only eight men wounded, one of whom, the boatswain, mortally. On the 2nd of May, 1813, Capt. Moubray being off the port of Morjean, in company with the Volontaire and Undaunted frigates, and Redwing sloop-of-war, observed the enemy actively employed in preparation for remounting cannon on two batteries, which had some time previous thereto been taken and dismantled by a detachment from the latter vessels. Viewing the importance of this situation as a place of protection to the coasting trade, he caused 100 marines of the Repulse to proceed in conjunction with those of the frigates, for the purpose of destroying the works, which was accomplished with the loss of two men killed and four wounded. The enemy had twelve killed and several taken prisoners. Early in 1814, Capt. Moubray escorted a fleet of merchantmen from Malta to England; and in the mouth of June following, paid the Repulse off at Plymouth. He was nominated a C.B., on the 4th of June, 1815; advanced to the rank of Rear-Admiral on the 19th of July, 1821; nominated a K.C.B., April, 1833; and promoted to Vice-Admiral, 10th January, 1837. Died at the Wools, Huntingdonshire, 6th November, 1812, in his 67th year.

(19 Nov 1842, Hampshire Independent)

Whyishewearingasombero · 27/04/2023 09:29

I'm currently at The Royal Philanthropic Society's Farm School at Redhill, Surrey in 1879, where my great grandfather has just arrived, aged 11.

He was apparently out of his step father's control, and he accused Thomas of stealing his money. Thomas was sentenced to 21 days in Reading Gaol and 4 years detention at the farm school, designed to turn juvenile delinquents away from a life of crime.

Although it was relatively progressive by Victorian times, it was pretty harsh for an obviously traumatised child who had a history of running away from home. He was caned regularly for minor offences, such as eating peas in the field and insubordination. He once spent 3 days in a cell for sleeping in his clothes and wetting the bed. His mother and stepfather visited him twice, once just after he arrived and the day before he emigrated to Canada aged 15.

He was apparently doing quite well there but returned to the UK three years later where he joined the army using his step father's name and confidently declaring on the admission form that he had no criminal convictions.

I'd always wondered at what point he'd adopted his stepfathers name (he was born illegitimately) so that question was answered.

I could fill a whole series of 'Who do you think you are' - and possibly two! So many fascinating tales.

I wrote an article for the BBC magazine and they had to edit details of one of my Victorian relatives criminal history - too shocking for their readership! (No violence, thankfully)

The magistrates called him 'the most aggravating man in Eastbourne'.