Run out of hints on Ancestry

[filka]

Many years ago I discovered that my great grandfather was born in Shoreditch Workhouse in 1845, evidently because my 3GF died aged 23 just a few months before he was born. Since then I've been hooked on genealogy and (my) family history.

My GGF and his elder brother both had large families which have spread across the globe, and its all pretty easily researchable through Ancestry, with access to census data and births, marriages and deaths from about 1840 onwards.

But I seem to be drawing a big blank about going back in time beyond the 1840s. I have 4GF's/4GM's marriage in 1810 from the church marriage register, but have resolutely failed to find either their births or deaths. I know 4GF died before 1840 because he was listed as deceased on 3GF's marriage certificate.

From 1820s through to 1920s the family is heavily based in the Hackney, Whitechapel, East End of London area, and generally is very poor.

Any idea of how to research earlier periods?

Thanks

What level subscription do you have? I found upgrading helped get further back. Also it's not just the official records that can help, look for clues in other things. For example on one side of my family another member had photographs of 2 letters written that have huge info on names, DOBs, locations, family events, emigration etc that helped to open up a whole new avenue to look into and verify. Another had a photo of a page out of the front of a Bible that had the names and DOBs of a whole generation of the family that gave new information & helped verify other bits. I also found the British Newspaper Archive really helpful for certain branches of the family.

watching with interest. I started my family tree but got really stuck and ran out of hints, I also couldn't verify some info so wasn't sure I had the correct names the further back I was going. Might look at upgrading, it's so pricey now though.

I have the Worldwide Membership for £180 per year. So I wonder how much more is available from All Access

• I doubt if the newspaper info will help much as they were not prominent people
• military records are not going to help me go back in time, no major wars in late 1700s.

I think Parish records are the key. Ancestry may not have the relevant data sets I'd suggest doing a bit of googling to find out where the East End parish records are. Eg, my ancestors are heavily Cheshire based and the Cheshire Parish records are on Find my Past so I have both Ancestry and FMP memberships.

FMP also have the newspaper database, you don't have to have prominent ancestors for it to help. It covers local newspapers so you can find birth, marriage, death notices plus snippets that add colour (such as my 4x Great Grandmother being arrested for being drunk and disorderly)

Have a look at this forum; www.rootschat.com/forum/london-and-middlesex/ it may have some guidance on data sources outside of Ancestry.

I get a lot more information from the "search" button on an individual's page. There may be no hints, but I've picked up a lot more information this way. You can also try Googling their names, looking on local history pages etc. I put my 3X great grandfather's name and occupation in the search engine and his photo immediately came up, mutton chop whiskers and all!

I agree re the 'search'. I never use hints as I find them really unreliable. They bring up a lot of wrong results while missing some records altogether.

I've not looked at my tree for a couple of years so things may have changed since, however....

Ancestry and Find My Past have slightly different record sets. They also have 'free weekends' occasionally so that you can try them.

I prefer Ancestry's tree layout but FMP has some slightly different records.

Also, not everything is transcribed and online. Sometimes you have to do it the old fashioned way. For example I found Parish Records on microfiche at The Treasure House in Beverley for my East Yorkshire family. They weren't available online.

I think the issue is sometimes that people were moving into London from country areas and it isn't easy to have find that origin data. Have you done the DNA test? That is how I found loads of hints and even a suggestion that some of my London lot actually came via North Carolina (a sixth of my DNA links seem to be from this one large US family despite me being British. My grandmother's family are all dirt poor from Hackney/Shoreditch (references in Booths poverty maps to their road being a akin to a muddy hovel plagued by vagrants and disease).

No major wars in the late 1700s! We were only at war with France from 1793-1815! Major expansion of army, militia, navy

I'm sure you already know, but registration of births, deaths, and marriages only became law in 1837, which is why for the vast majority of "normal" people you won't find these types of records before then.

You need to look at parish records pre civil registration. FamilySearch are pretty good for these I've found. Also expand you tree outside of your direct line if you haven't already as sometimes that can throw up some clues.

Agree with the google advice- pop in a name and a place- and scroll right down.
I have found interesting stories this way.
Brings up documents/ transcripts/ books/ articles that might have information.

I find it a bit addictive though!!

@filka

I have the Worldwide Membership for £180 per year. So I wonder how much more is available from All Access

• I doubt if the newspaper info will help much as they were not prominent people
• military records are not going to help me go back in time, no major wars in late 1700s.

Between the mid 1700s & 1815 Britain was almost constantly at war Seven Years' War 1756-1763 War of American independence 1775-1783 French Revolution wars 1792-1802 Napoleonic wars 1803- 1815 War with America 1812-1815 Plus various wars in India (the East India Company)

I haven't done any proper research for a long time but Church of the Latter Day Saints records used to be excellent as they have more concise records from churches and graveyards.... or do I was once told! I may be wrong and things may have moved on a lot.

@Magissa

I haven't done any proper research for a long time but Church of the Latter Day Saints records used to be excellent as they have more concise records from churches and graveyards.... or do I was once told! I may be wrong and things may have moved on a lot.

You're right - it's familysearch.org

Try looking for burial records. I live in the area you are looking at. At that time there was terrible unimaginable poverty, a lot of people wouldn't have even made it onto a census, but most people were recorded as they were buried.
I'm in a few local history facebook groups, that might be useful for you, to see old photos, streetmaps and such.
I'm happy to help you with some local east end knowledge/history if that would be useful.

Some useful tips here, many thanks

I was perhaps a bit flippant (ignorant ) about wars, I must watch some more Sharpe TV series. But to turn that around, if what I'm trying to do is to go further back in time than my subscription in Ancestry enables, will the upgrade to include military records achieve that? Or is that more useful for WW1 onwards?

@imnotacelebritygetmeoutofhere that's a very useful offer too, many thanks. I remember my aunt living in Hackney and used to visit often. I think some of the streets were blitzed though, there were a lot of family members in Gainsborough Street/Square. My father was born in Hackney but moved out to Romford by the 1950s.

But didn't realise at the time how big the family actually was. My GGF had at least 8 children who survived to adulthood and his brother another 9 - all originally clustered in a very small area in Hackney. Most of them seem to have been brush makers. But despite the poverty there's a very high survival rate and a lot of emigration - Australia, Canada, South Africa.

Opening FMP for the first time in a while also reminded me that 1921 Census results are public soon, that will be interesting.

As I understand FMP, by inputting my tree and waiting for hints, I don't have to have a full subscription but can pay for individual documents (if I don't have them through Ancestry). That would ease the pain a bit.

@nearlychristmas21 I'd forgotten that...thanks for the date reminder

Really happy today...

I filled in family tree info on FMP, just directly upwards from me and left to cook for a while. Thanks to @whiteroseredrose for noting that the record sets are different (and evidently the hint processes).

Had a couple of hints on my GGG-GM, but went back to my Ancestry subscription to look them up. Followed @Whatdramain2022 advice to use search rather than hint, and found a parish baptism record (@ProfYaffle !). So now I have a baptism date in 1789 in the same church as her wedding 21 years later and an extra prize of both parents names, taking me back a generation.

Also I discovered www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/acatalog/home.html so have ordered a set of maps from Hackney to Whitechapel as at 1893 (earlier and later versions available), 6 maps at only £3 each.

And uploaded my DNA to FMP (livingDNA.com) so will be interesting to see what they come up with that's different to Ancestry.

Many thanks to all.

Well done OP that's awesome! You've inspired me to start mine again. I think I'm going to have to request some military records from the second world war, as I'd love to know more about my Grandad who served. I'm tempted to start a new tree as I went about it in a very haphazard fashion before.

It can be a right pain in the bum before 1840. You really have to hunt hard.

My tips would be to work through siblings for clues and look for occupations where you see them. For example a sibling called Anna Cole Smith can tip you off about her mother's maiden name being Cole. But if your direct ancestor is her brother George you might miss the clue. Occupations can help you eliminate Michael Jones the Farmer if you know your Michael Jones is the cordwainer.

And definitely don't rule out newspapers. This week I've found out a death of someone I had been looking for a while but had a few records it could be. The article described the inquest into his death and gave his original profession and the one he had been working in at the time of his death which solved a bit of a mystery for me. Don't forget to search by place or even a known address.

Also for marriages, double check if there are details of the bride or groom's parish. They can be helpful. As can witnesses.

Please don't just use hints though. Search to see if there are alternatives to the record suggested. The problem with hints is if one person gets it wrong it tends to set the algorythm for others so everyone makes the same mistakes.

@ProfYaffle

I agree re the 'search'. I never use hints as I find them really unreliable. They bring up a lot of wrong results while missing some records altogether.

Couldn't agree more. Some of the hints are quite frankly bizarre and I think that explains why I've yet to find a family tree on ancestry which is totally correct.

I'm afraid that it makes my blood boil when I see the same impossible "facts" being repeated again and again.

I see lots of trees tracing back from someone who died in the US to someone on my family tree. I know for sure that these people died in the same tiny village in Hampshire (example) that they were born in and where they married. I have seen their burial entry, their death certificate and visited their grave.

Not to mention the events that are said to have happened in Winchester, USA when they actually happened in Winchester, England.

Most of the trees on Ancestry are works of fiction as far as I can tell.

Rant over.

I agree that you have to be very careful with documents. At least I've actually been in touch with strands of my family in Australia and South Africa and knew people who knew the people who emigrated.

On the other hand I'm feeling a bit cautious about accepting an 1827 baptism register where the names and dates seem about right, but the location is Westminster rather than Hackney!

Not to mention the events that are said to have happened in Winchester, USA when they actually happened in Winchester, England.

This is a big problem!

Most of the trees on Ancestry are works of fiction as far as I can tell

This is it. Relying on other people's research isn't the way to go. All it does is perpetuate errors again and again. You have to assume that they have made mistakes, and check absolutely everything against official records.

@eagerlywaitingfor

Most of the trees on Ancestry are works of fiction as far as I can tell

This is it. Relying on other people's research isn't the way to go. All it does is perpetuate errors again and again. You have to assume that they have made mistakes, and check absolutely everything against official records.

I agree, I'm very careful to make sure all the documents stack up and I rarely use anyone else's tree if the links are not properly documented. I link as many documents as I can to the people in my tree, so I know all the relatives, addresses etc.

I saw one tree with overlap in mine, where they had got one name which I knew to be wrong and dozens, maybe hundreds of wrong people flowed from that mistake.

But...that's why it is harder to go back in time before about 1840, because you really only have baptisms and weddings to go on.