Death certificate handwriting (pic)

[Lemond1fficult]

Hi everyone

I got the death certificate for my g-g-g-grandfather from 1857 and can't read the cause of death, as I don't think it's a familiar condition in today's parlance.

Would love a hand reading it, if anyone's able?

4 months certified just means he was diagnosed four months prior to death

I have never seen the date of diagnosis being put on a death certificate, either contemporary ones or Victorian. Has anyone else every seen it? It's definitely not a standard thing, so it must be there for a reason. I don't think this rules out scirrhous - maybe having a date is related to the fact that they thought the cancer was linked to mining, for example.

...or the 4 months might also be the time he had been receiving care from a doctor, if the doctor was paid for by a miners' union or similar organisation.

So I am agreeing that the 4 months is the date of diagnosis, but I'm saying that's probably not the sole reason it's on the certificate IYSWIM

different direction - but tb was rampant at the time - scrofula tb of the lymph nodes in the neck. he would have had fevers over long period - many families were wiped out by it - check if any siblings died around same time op?

The date of that Cwmtillery incident is interesting, but if there’s no other connecting evidence, I think you have to assume it’s just coincidence.

A fair number of people in any given area would have been dying every day of various causes. Statistically, in a coal mining area, a lot of them would have been miners.

Wouldn’t surprise me if dying young of cancer was itself linked to the job though.

I thought it said perished

XXcstatic I've seen it on several of my own family history death certificates, I can't post an image of them as I've lent the folder to a family member but this is an example that I found on google.

XXcstatic, fwiw I’ve just had a look and the header on at least some of my (Scottish) certificates from this period says “Cause of death, duration of disease and medical attendant by whom certified” - so they routinely give a length of months, weeks or days. Or years!

I don’t think they always include the doctor’s name though, although some do - because I am sure I’ve seen ones like op’s that just say “cert.”

*Nanny, I've seen it too.

Re miners & cirrhosis. I think there's a condition known as the Celtic Disease, properly called Haemochromatosis which causes cirrhosis due to a build up of iron.

Haemochromatosis is an inherited disease, not something developed through working conditions.

I think the word "certified" might be referring to the coal miner as there is a handwritten line linking "certified" to "coal miner" in the previous column. Plus he has written certified with a capital C (rather
than a lower case c) which I don't think he would if it was a continuation of the phrase "4 months".

I read it as "scirrhous [(or whatever the first word says)] 4 months" and "coal miner certified".

I've seen well over a hundred historic death certificates and completely agree with what NannyR and others are saying.

England & Wales are dealt with by the same system and I've seen plenty of English certs since the inception of registration in 1837. The Scottish system is different and I've seen plenty of those as well.

The "4 months" is definitely how long the deceased is believed to have been suffering from the condition. Sometimes this entry reads "many years", when the doctor or person reporting doesn't know the length of the illness.

"Certified" is also an extremely common entry, usually accompanied by the name of the doctor who did the certification. I'm just now looking at one death cert from Manchester in 1853 which reads "Cause of Death: Rheumatism many years, Certified", and another from Cornwall in 1981 which reads "Cause of Death: Ia) Pulmonary Oedema, b) Cardiovascular degeneration, c) Hypertension. Certified by R. D. Martin MB".

I've also just laid my hands on an 1849 English cert which reads: "Cause of Death: Chronic Rheumatism 10 yrs No Medical attendant Not Certified", and I had an 1861 Scottish one recently which read "Sudden death Supposed to be Heart Disease Not Certified". That was a bit late on to have no certification, but the poor chap collapsed on the station platform on his way home from consulting a doctor in Edinburgh, was carried unconscious onto the train and at his destination was found to be dead. So maybe no one bothered paying for another doctor.

I also have a Scottish d cert for a drowning where the body wasn't found until about 6 weeks later. This is only visible from the gap between date given for death, and date of registration: there's no spelling out of "6 weeks".

(Poor lad went to near his childhood home and chucked himself off a bridge. It was 1918, I know his brother had been killed and believe he himself had served in the war.)

XXcstatic, I'm more intrigued by the fact you're saying that, as a doctor, you don't write "certified".

But I think I've sussed that.

As the doctor, you are providing the certificate that certifies the death. This is taken to the Registrar in order to register the death, and your certificate is mentioned in the Death Register entry.

The Registrar then issues the person reporting the death with a copy of the Death Register entry – a piece of paper commonly called a death certificate.

Oops, posted too soon.

The Death Register entry – and the the copy handed out by the Registrar – will include the words "Certified by XXcstatic".

I initially thought fevourous but then thought you would be unlikely to have a fevour for 4 months?

I think it's scirrhous too - I've come across it on a death certificate before

I was trying to find my paternal grandfathers military record. I n doing so I found he was married before he married my grandmother and they had a child.
I’ve managed to find that child (my dads half brother) on another family tree but he died in 1995. He had six children though. Is there any way to trace them from the parents details?
Thank you

Also trying to find my maternal grandmothers death certificate. Another family tree says she died 2003 in London but doesn’t link to an entry.
Thank you

Perishment. 4 months. Certified.

I also agree Scirrhous. I have seen “certified“ on several death certificates, also Wales, in my case TB, but I assume it means that the cause of death had been diagnosed prior to death happening.

Hi, supercatlady, maybe best to start your own thread! As you can see, you'll just get missed in more answers to this OP!

This is a ZOMBIE thread, a year old.

@supercatlady
You would be better starting your own thread to get some help.
This thread is a year old now!!