Which Laptop for DS1?

[Curiousmama]

Can anyone advise on a good laptop to get for DS1 (yr7) I got a home access grant and have been given £528 to buy a laptop and it includes internet for a year. My computer is pre-historic and temperamental so this has come as a relief

TIA

What can vary a little is the keyboard layout and key feedback - go along to a store where you can test some out and let him see which Manufacturer's keyboard he prefers.

Also look at the pointing device - many use a touchpad, some may use a nipple. See which he is better at using.

Screen size - personally I'd go for as large a screen as possible. Then it can be used for viewing online full-screen video and DVDs.

A big screen size will mean a large laptop. Consider if you need the laptop to be portable, or would it in reality be used mostly in one place?

Get as fast a processor as the budget will permit. I find a Pentium dual-core T3400 2.16 GHz 1MB L2 cache with 3GB Ram is sufficient for running Vista. It may be sluggish at the latest hi-tech games but you will find that most laptops are not designed as Games machines. Flash based online games are fine - things like Farmville on Facebook for example. Technology moves on at an alarming pace, so get the fastest processor you can get for the budget, also aim for as high a RAM amount as possible. 3GB probably the minimum these days.

Compare internet access deals, presuming the budget needs to include that for a year then see which provider offers best value for money. O2 do reasonably good deals on Broadband, especially if an existing 02 mobile customer. Does he have a mobile phone? I have a PAYG O2 mobile purely so I get cheaper O2 Broadband! ThinkBroadband will compare services. SamKnows will tell you what is available on your phone exchange. Signup via a Cashback website like Quidco and you could get £50 cashback.

Consider in-built features that are required. For example, some laptops come with a built-in webcam.

Consider also what you may want to use it for yourself... any little feature you may need.

Does the budget include an element towards buying software and a printer? Consider what software may be needed (Anti-Virus is available for Free from AVG and also may be available from your Bank for free, if you would use it to access internet banking on occasion).

Consider how easy it is to get the actual computer. I hate waiting in for deliveries, so my current laptop came from Tesco, where all I had to do was drive to the store and pick the ticket thing and pay. Took about 5 to 10 mins in total. Far easier than getting it delivered.

Don't disagree with anything nannynick has said, but just wanted to point out that the right-most Dell laptop here: www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home/laptops_great_deals/fs.aspx?refid=laptops_great_deals&s=dhs&cid=HDLapt op&cs=ukdhs1&dgc=IR&lid=SHP_BK3 is exceptionally good value for money on the discount that's being offered until the end of today...but it is a quid over budget!

Also, is your budget meant to cover the cost of internet for a year, too, or is that being provided separately?

Hi thanks so much for the info...will digest it all later when I have more time but it's very gratefully received

The budget is for internet too lazydog.

Oops - ok, ignore my far too expensive suggestion then!

For the internet part, as Nick wrote, I'd check ThinkBroadband.com as you can compare different ISPs and see graphs for the last 6 months showing reliability, customer service, and speed. What speed you get will depend on how far from the exchange you are (unless you have the option to use Virgin cable) and the range of deals you can use will depend a bit on where you live... In most cities you have more choice than somewhere rural, and the costs are often lower, with greater usage allowance.

You are clearly already using the internet, so do you have to give some proof of charges to get a portion of the grant for internet access? Since there are many options when it comes to internet access, do you already know what amount of traffic your family uses (ie if the ISP offers 'starter' 'medium' and 'premium' accounts giving say 2 GB, 10 GB and 30 GB of data, do you know which you use?)

I only ask because with a new machine there may well be a lot more downloading - assuming you won't just 'scrap' the current PC - as you'll have 2 PCs to use in future...

As for a new PC, in the past I've suggested any client visit places like PC World and Comet to try them out, but now (and especially with an expensive new machine) I'd say it is probably just as easy to have separate USB keyboard and mouse (or even, since you have a generous budget) wireless mouse and keyboard - they don't cost the earth - USB multimedia keyboard at a tenner or less, and optical (laser) mouse at under 4 quid inc delivery (eg from Ebay or Amazon).

Why bother with separate keyboard and mouse? Well, all too often someone manages to spill coffee or wine or lemonade into the keyboard section of a laptop and can pretty easily destroy it when powered up... There's no need to have the machine right up to your face when it has a 15+" screen and you can 'share' the view more easily if it is just that bit further back on a table/ desk. Mouse is probably a lot better than the built-in pad / trackball / joystick and a full size keyboard is cheap to replace if it ever gets damaged... a multimedia keyboard has the 'play' 'next track' 'mute' 'vol+' 'vol-' buttons as well as the regular keys, and some have a 'sleep' button too, so you can make the laptop 'sleep' and turning it back on, it will have exactly the same windows open, and everything as it was when told to sleep.

I know PCs will run faster with more RAM, but for general use, rather than by a 'power' user, 2 GB should be OK (I recently bought a Compaq laptop at 250 quid with Windows 7 on, and it is very responsive). If you do want to go for something with plenty of RAM, medium (in today's terms) hard drive, and don't mind spending nearly 400 quid, then THIS might do all you need.

It's the big sister Compaq (I bought mine in Asda Living, where the price had been dropped by about 100 quid), but at 379, this should tick most boxes, as it has 4 GB of RAM, 250 GB Hard Drive, and widescreen (but can be plugged into a big plasma or LCD TV using HDMI if it was used for showing holiday photos, or perhaps running some games).

As I'm giving my sister the one I bought (Asda sold out) I am even tempted to get this one for myself in place of it!!

Ah - just seen the Compaq I linked to is running Vista, while the cheaper one has Windows 7 on it. If possible, I'd look around for something in the 300-400 price range with Windows 7, simply because it will be as 'up to date' as you can get now, and won't be out of date if you don't want to replace it in the next few years.

As an aside to your immediate query...

Just checked your profile and as your current machine is temperamental, and you have a second child not many years behind the first, you might want to look on Ebay (I have seen a number of XP machines with 2 GB of RAM in the 80 to 100 pound bracket {+ delivery}.

Not laptops but desktop/ tower PCs. Even one or two with Windows 7 on them. Of course a desktop might not be as 'trendy' as a laptop, but I saw something about Sunderland being the Facebook capital of the UK and given there may be limited time after school and before bed for both lads to use one PC to help with homework, and have a little leisure time, it may be handy to know that a second (and perhaps slightly newer) machine could be available at modest cost... perhaps replacing the one you are using now (after all any machine off Ebay would need a screen, too)... sorry if I'm jumping the gun - just thinking ahead a little...

Given Nick's suggestion about Quidco, I took a look and form there went on to Pixmania which has a couple of likely laptops that could be worth a look:

Dell Inspiron 1545 Ice Blue for 369 (due in 19/03/2010)

This is a Pentium Dual-Core with 3 GB RAM, 320 GB HD, Windows 7.

Acer Aspire 5735Z
Pentium Dual-Core, 4 GB RAM, 160 GB HD, with Vista Home Basic... (unfortunately running Vista, but 100 quid cheaper, if you decide to push more into a faster internet connection that will be shared, of course, by more than 1 PC)

If you sign up at Quidco and then go on to Pixmania, then look for the machines, you should get 5% back (less any membership of Quidco) from the cost of the laptop.

There are loads of PC firms listed, but check each one carefully to see if they offer lower amounts for laptops (for example, Play.com has a headline figure of 6% but that's for clothing/ accessories and for PCs it is 0.5% - though to be fair, Play.com is fairly /very competitive anyway!)

Thanks so much webdude that's amazing info. I don't get to buy accessories with the money but it will include a years broadband and also support. I don't have wireless at the moment but am with virgin.

Well, since you are with Virgin, I assume the cost of that should be covered for the year. Are you forced to use some firm for support (because you may get fairly good support, for free, on MN, and it would reduce what you have to spend on a PC/laptop)

Is the plan to buy a laptop so it can go to school (!), or because it's specified as the expected purchase, or 'trendy' and what DS wants, or because it represents good value for money compared with a desktop / tower PC + screen ?

Only asking because the vast majority of 'affordable' laptops are restricted in processor power - they are generally around the 2 GHz speed, (a) because they would get pretty hot if run much faster, or have more noisy fans, and (b) to give some battery life.

Someone only recently commented how disappointing it was that the bulk of machines only offered 2 to 2.5 hours use before the battery would be flat. There are a few energy saving things possible, but I still see a laptop as being something aimed primarily at a businessperson wanting to do work on the train / plane or for someone who had special software, or some form of presentation they were taking to demonstrate / show to clients.

The laptop may seem 'the norm' and can represent great value for money, but if you already have a screen, or can get a decent flat screen (under 100 pounds) then sometimes a PC mini-tower can be worthwhile. They can have much faster clock speeds (50% to 75% faster than many laptops) and nowadays have lots of USB ports, and built-in card readers (for phone or camera memory cards), and while they're less portable, they're also less of a target for theft - a laptop (even if it is old and slow) looks like it can be flogged easily, and is very easy to carry, where a 'standard' PC with separate monitor and separate mouse and keyboard just add hassle... Finally you can upgrade with a new mini-tower while keeping the screen, so you spend less on an upgrade.

I don't mean to 'bully' you into considering a mini-tower, just feel it is worth weighing up the pros and cons. All too often, parents complain about teens going 'off to their room' and doing 'who knows what' on their laptop - it's that portability that takes it into offering a private (and sometimes sinister) environment which can give rise to concerns about youngsters going off and meeting adults, etc, etc...

It's a long shot, of course, and as you mention not having wireless, a laptop would still need plugging into your internet connection, so probably a bit closer for some supervision if you deem it necessary.

Presumably your PC is connected by a cable to some box form Virgin. Does it have more than one ethernet socket on it (so a second PC can be plugged in) or will that be something you need to consider (getting a 'router' to share the single connection from Virgin with all {OK, 2 for now!} PCs in the household) ?

Presumably you know the cost of the internet connection from Virgin - are you 'forced' to use some of the grant for paying for that, or will you need to change the Virgin package you are on and pay more, to cope with 2 PCs online?

I only ask because it strikes me that you could be justified in putting more into the new PC if you have some leeway - it would also help anyone on MN trying to suggest machines, if they knew the absolute maximum you can spend on the PC portion...

For example, laptops and tower/desktop PCs are not the only options. There's the Dell Inspiron One (PC World are out of stock, and it might not be the lowest price). It's an "All in One" machine with a 19" screen (computer processor is built into the back of the screen unit... I won something similar a few years ago from RedStore.com)

However, All-in-One machines are generally in the 400+ area, while laptops (with Windows 7 and 2 to 4 GB of RAM are most likely to be in the 300+ area).

Getting a firmer idea on your absolute max limit for the PC would be a real help.

Since I went off to the RedStore website for a look around, I thought I'd mention a few machines I found which are in the 300-400 pound range. All have 2 GB RAM (the minimum recommended for Windows 7, though only 2 offer Windows 7, unfortunately)

Windows 7

Fujitsu 15.4" W Cel 2.2GHz 2GB 160GB DVDRAM Gb LAN WiFi Bluetooth Card Reader Webcam WebCam Win7 HP
334.58 www.redstore.com/FUJNOT05S

Lenovo Intel Celeron M 743(1.3GHz), 2GB RAM, 160GB 5400rpm HD, 13.3in 1366x768 LCD, Intel 4500MHD,..
374.94 www.redstore.com/LENNOT354

Windows Vista

Acer Extensa 5630EZ 15.4"W Pen DC 2GHz 2GB 160GB DVDRW Gb LAN WiFi VHP
351.75 www.redstore.com/ACENOT22G

Toshiba Satellite Pro L300D-11N 15.4"W Athlon64 X2 1.9GHz 2GB 160GB DVDRW WiFi VHP 1 yr wty
362.14 www.redstore.com/TOSNOT01C

Into my e-mail inbox this morning:

From Ebuyer, an Acer Aspire 5732Z for 399.

15.6" screen
Pentium dual core T4300 2.1 GHz
RAM: 4 GB
HD: 500 GB
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

various Acer s/w (Acer Cinema, Album, Music...)

Free carry case

Unlike many recent laptops, this has no webcam or mic built in, but should not be a big problem!

www.ebuyer.com/product/179792 in case anyone has a problem with the embedded link to Ebuyer.

i have my grant too....£400 to spend within next 3 months

i have wireless,am with aol. have an old desktop(which is pretty useless} and my laptop. but the new purchase will be for dd who is doing gcse's then A levels

so windows 7 is best?
acer is an acceptable brand?

Thanks again webdude. Found out I can get a laptop in certain stores or online so that does limit me. It comes with a dongle and internet access for a year. I've found out phones4u in my town deals with the grant so will no doubt go there armed with my info

TBB Acer is a good brand, my dp has one of those at his home.

Well I rang phones4u in my town as they're on the list as accepted suppliers. The guy who answered said in a very gruff voice "hullo" I said "oh is this phones4u?" (thinking I'd misdialled) He said "Yes" in the nastiest tone imaginable I just put the phone down, googled phones4U customer services and rang to complain.

Anyway, I've ordered one onliine and it's a toshiba think it'll be like the last one you recommended webdude? It's pro satellite whatever that means? I get a dongle with 1 year broadband, case etc... and also free printer and memory stick. Or should I say ds1 gets

Thanks again for your help webdude, you always go above and beyond thanks to everyone else too.

Sorry, CM, to read you're limited to where you can purchase - local might be fine but if you give a list of the online firms, that would help.

Perhaps you can find out what split there is between (a) PC, (b) internet access and (c) support at Phones4U and come back so we can see if there's something online that may be better than what's in Phones4U... (*)

A bit of a shame about the dongle method - it might be the Three mobile service (they were selling a 12 GB/ 12 months {whichever is used up first} package for about 80 quid - it would be fine for general browsing (text mostly, wikipedia and so on) but would be used up quite fast if the youngsters go to YouTube {or even the BBC iPlayer} to watch / listen to items. A TV show can be from 300 MB up (almost a third of a month's allowance, if you consider 12 GB/ 12 months, IYSWIM).

For TBB - Windows 7 should certainly be better than Windows Vista (about which I've seen mainly moans and groans). Microsoft extended the period when they sold Windows XP to allow for the demand from business users not to switch to Vista, and even new machines today, such as one from Misco {which I had not listed before, as it is over 400 quid and possibly too expensive) comes with Windows 7 and media to convert it back to Windows XP (!!)

Misco 08000 3 8888 0

www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=415981

Compaq 610 Notebook PC + Free Laptop Bag / Intel® Core?2 Duo Processor T5870 /
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional 32-bit + XP Media is in the box / 15.6" HD /
2 GB RAM / 320 GB HDD / SATA DVD+/-RW SuperMulti DL LightScribe Drive /
WiFi b/g/N / Bluetooth / Webcam / 1Yr Warranty - (Laptops/Notebooks)

481.74 - 50.00 = 431.74 (cashback deal)

(*) My view on Phones4U - if it's anything like Carphone Warehouse, they will have PCs but they will not be among the cheapest prices, especially if you go for anything with a sensible size screen (ie more than 10 or 11 inches).

The prices for Laptops at CPW seem artificially inflated so that when they say 399 but 25 quid a month on some contract, the contract deal looks better value - even if the person ends up paying 600 quid - quite a bit more than the laptop, and might only get a stingy internet allowance (eg 3GB) thrown in.

I am perhaps misjudging Phones4U and they (like the online firms) may have had some contract deal with the grant provider (Government?) so they don't rip you off, but just cover their backs to be able to offer support within the total price.

how do you get a printer? i see comet do an add on bundle for £69 which includes a printer etc

The printer was included in the package. I'll put the name of the online company on her TBB.

I've ordered it now webdude thanks though.

printer deal here

Oh dear - I went and checked what I could find, and see that one of the firms was offering a machine with 2 GB of RAM while the majority are only 1 GB. 2 GB will make it run faster.

One firm does offer either 1 GB or 2 GB but charges an extra 49.99 for the 2 GB laptops (Samsung or Toshiba). I suppose the printer will come in handy, though I think that extra memory might have been a better deal.

I was just starting to create a webpage comparing the different offers when I came back here and saw you'd already placed your order

The only downside of getting the machine with 2 GB of RAM was that they were using Open Office and some might prefer MS Office which seems to be on most of the other machines.

Horses for courses, but if Office 2007 slows a 2 GB machine down, who knows how well a 1 GB machine will cope... OpenOffice, though free, has pretty much identical facilities (and is compatible with MS Office).

I may still put up a web page with a comparison of the different deals in case someone else comes across this thread.

Leonie - yes, I included a Dell 1545 earlier on, but these deals for grant holders are limited in which companies can supply, and I found the range of machines supplied is quite limited - I've seen a couple of Samsung, a Toshiba, and one desktop (with 19" LCD screen). All are about 370-400 without broadband access.

Once they add broadband (using T-Mobile or Three mobile networks) the price jumps up to over 525 pounds.

Most firms install MS Office and provide Windows 7 on the machines with 1 GB RAM and 160 GB hard drive, but one called PositiveIT is offering 2 GB RAM, but instead of MS Office they install Open Office instead.

I had a grant too. Unfortunately very limited where to buy from and only a few choices of Laptop or PC.

I went for this one in the end. Paid the extra £19 as my grant was £400 (already have internet).

Tortoise - actually that firm seems to offer more choices (well, 2 on top of the 3 that most others offer) but strange to see they charge an extra 19 quid for several of them.

Anyway, I hope the new machine is proving itself and will be of use to your teenager (?)

Looks like Windows 7 will get quite popular as the numbers of households with these machines grows...