Can anyone recommend a flat screen TV?

[MmeLindt]

We don't want to spend a fortune, but our old massive TV is doing funny stuff and so it is time to look for a new, sleeker and fancier version.

What should we look for? What size is right for our room - is there a way of working this out?

Not sure about Tesco, although I think this week's Gadget show was doing a review of those.

Most of the TVs have the same parts inside, with one or two exceptions. I also have a Hanspree 32" LCD in my kitchen. No brand, but has same internals and screen as the Samsung that was 3 times the price.

Hanspree is Korean, there are some cracking value TVs coming from there. Checkout ebuyer.com.

link to the indisputably vulgar tvOurs came with something called a blueray player.

God no not PC World, please no. Don't buy anything there.

Ever.

We actually got it from Currys but they were out of stock and Mme would not have seen the vulgarity of our TV.

What's wrong with PC world?

Everything is wrong with PC World / Currys / Dixons (all part of same group I think).

PC World rely on people with little knowledge or who don't have time to research visiting their stores. The sales people have no idea what it is they are selling and the prices are rubbish. PC World are basically a massive con. I know LOTS of people who've bought from them and no-one has had a good experience.

Comet, for some reason, are ok and prices are much better.

Quattro
Heavens! That thing would block out the sun.

Ok, the HD thing is good to know, thank. Will check Swisscom to see how much they broadcast in HD.

We are thinking about ?500 - 600 so the Loew are out.

Plasma vs LCD - am leaning towards LCD backlit at the moment.

Ok, according to Swisscom the HD package would cost ?9 a month and offer stuff in German that I don't really want - National Geographic, Sports, ESPN, Fox HD.

Sooooo. If I go for either 32 or 37 inch, would a plasma be better after all? For normal TV viewing.

Although, I suppose that Swisscom may do more HD over the coming years, and if (when) we move from Switzerland the next place may offer more HD.

Missed your question about LED TVs last night, NG.

This is Which on LED (I didn't put it in because it's very wordy & I thought it might make MmeL even more confused! )

What is LED technology in TVs?

LEDs (light-emitting diodes) have been around for decades, but their introduction into HD TV design and availability on the high street is a fairly recent development.
LED televisions are basically LCD TVs with one crucial difference ? the handful of traditional back light lamps that illuminate the screen have been replaced by hundreds of smaller LEDs.
To give an LED TV its full name is more of a mouthful ? LED lit LCD. LED TVs still employ standard LCD TV technology; Light from behind the screen is shone through the television screen's matrix of tiny coloured liquid crystal cells. Signals control each cell, letting varying amounts of colour through, and a picture is built up.

Who makes LED TVs?

Following on from Sony and Samsung in 2008 and 2009, all the major television manufacturers have now launched an LED TV range.
The downside at the moment is common to any new technology ? a hefty price tag. The majority of new LED TVs tend to be higher end fare, though there are now some budget options available.

Do LED TV pictures look better?

In theory the use of LED back lighting should deliver an improved contrast between bright and dark elements of a picture.
On many of the LED TVs we've tested, we found the pictures vibrant, sharp, detailed and oozing with depth, though the viewing angle tends to be poor (a common problem on LCD TVs that the new back lighting doesn't appear to have resolved).
Whether this picture quality success can be set purely at the door of LED back lighting is debatable. The higher end (and very expensive) models tend to perform well, but it is not the case across the board. Picture quality varies by brand and budget, just as it does with LCD and plasma technologies.

What are the benefit of LED TVs?

The benefits are twofold: LED TVs are slimmer and typically more energy efficient than both regular LCD TVs and plasma TVs.
What makes LED TVs so slim?
There are basically two types of LED TVs - Edge LED TVs and backlit LED TVs. Edge models are simply those with the LED lighting placed around the the edge of the screen. Without the traditional bulky lamps at the back of the TV, Edge LED models can be designed to be incredibly slim.
Some early Edge TVs suffered from an uneven backlighting effect, especially in the corners of the screen. This is a problem Samsung seems to have cracked with its models thanks to some clever light diffusion technology.
Thicker LED panels, are typically illuminated by LEDs dotted over the rear of the panel, but many backlit models (such as the LG LX9900) are slimmer than regular TVs too.

LEDs are also more energy efficient than traditional bulbs and require less power to illuminate the screen. The effect on power consumption can be dramatic, especially when compared to the LCD and plasma TVs we've already tested.
Some of the most dramatic examples include the Samsung UE55C8000 and Panasonic Viera TX-L42D25. The Samsung is a huge 55-inch screen but consumes only 114 watts when switched on (nearer to a typical the 40-inch LCD screen.
The Panasonic uses about a third of the power of an equivalent-sized Panasonic plasma TV - just under 94W in normal viewing mode.
Both are fine examples of how LED TV technology is pushing the boundaries of energy efficiency.

Thanks Ponders.

Think I will just go into a store, close my eyes and point.

:o

Thanks all for the advice, it is really helping. Honest.

Thanks for the update with LED TV info - certainly worth considering both on environmental and electricity cost grounds if it is a third the consumption of a plasma - actually I thought some of the early plasma 42" models used nearer 500 W (considing that nowadays with a light on in pretty much every room (7) I would still be using less power than an old 100 W bulb (I have 11W, 13W and 20W low energy bulbs in different rooms, and would prefer < 200 W for a future TV).

MmeL - I did assume the Loewe were out, on cost grounds, but it was to make the point that not all LCD TVs are poor, and paying more can get a really good one (capable of handling various formats from DVD, inc DivX, AVI, WMV and Xvid, streaming them from a PC via wireless if you choose the right options [eg for the household wanting to move towards home cinema]).

To answer your 'main' question - yes, plasma would probably still be the best option for general viewing, where LCD might need more controlled viewing angle. LCD would have lower long term running costs, but plasma may give a better picture.

Friends of mine who install home cinema and run a hi-fi shop so 'try out' loads of kit used to say that for picture quality, plasma was essential, but now LCD is catching up and may be a bit (10% to 20%) cheaper than plasma, with lower running costs. They're not 'pushing LCD' as they sell Loewe, but have been seeing quality improve on LCD to a point where there's not always much difference where 3 years ago they would have seriously recommended someone "think again" if they mentioned getting LCD.

Clearly you need to visit a store to see some side by side, consider the HD aspect to be future-ready (after all, if you plug in a Blu-ray DVD player or some game systems even, the HD quality may be quite striking, and while 'HD Ready' may exceed 'Full HD' TVs to a considerable extent, the small (5% if at all) extra cost means you know you are able to use HD in future, when more channels move that way, rather than get some HD-output device and then find the TV you have is not giving the best picture you could be seeing.

Quattro - I would tend to back TLD on his views about PC World.

PC World / Currys / The Link / Dixons were all in the Dixons Stores Group though The Link and Dixons moved from town centres - The Link closed while Dixons went online only.

Years back 30% of income was from (pressure) selling of overpriced insurance. Nowadays the PC World stores may sometimes have a few bargains, but I tend to view items there and buy (much cheaper) online.

Even PC World prices online can be much lower. One client desperately wanted a replacement router to get things sorted (him company director, his wife a head teacher, both busy evenings and weekends with work projects). 4 routers in PC World store at 99.99, while online they were 59.99, 69.99, 79.99 and 89.99 so the store was simply grabbing lots of cash from time-poor people (and many will be business people so claim it back on expenses, do not notice the cost as much as Joe Public who may check online and if waiting 4-6 days means saving 40 quid then Joe Public is willing to wait!)

\link{http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-TX-32LZD80-Widescreen-1080p-Freeview/dp/B0015LV99Y\this is ours} - long discontinued as we've had it over 18 months!

It has the spec further down the page - it does have 1920 x 1080 pixels, also 178 degree viewing angle; the HD picture is stunning & it certainly can be watched from a very oblique angle although obv the picture is best from the front. The back plate says its power consumption is 150W.

Panasonic TVs are fantastic! (I wish their microwaves were as good )

When it was first recommended by Which, 6 months before we bought it, the target price was £850 - it was already down to c £450-500 (I don't remember exactly) when we got it, & it went down further after that, so it's worth hanging around a bit if there's a really new one you like the look of!

Amazon suggested the newer version of that one. Will check to see if it is available in CH. Very good reviews on Amazon.

I was interested to compare the 32" new model (which has Freeview HD, only useful if you can get HD in your area, and limited number of channels compared with satellite, into the future at least).

For an extra tenner there's a 37" model from Panasonic (admittedly about double the weight). At first glance I felt the new 32" model might be significantly different after I saw the weight but apart from HD Freeview and 'IPS' (display feature), it seems the similarities are quite high apart from screen size.

One other 'plus' for the 37" model is that it handles SDHC (the higher capacity cards one might use in HD 'video'/ stills cameras and higher end mobile phones, while the 32" despite HD Freeview only seems to handle SD cards (limited to 2 or 4 GB I think).

Since MmeL isn't bothered about HD Freeview, then unless the 37" would 'dominate' or is unavailable at such similar price levels, then it could be one to consider, IMO.

Ok, can I ask what you think of this one which I can get for CHF 795 (£500) which seems a good deal.

I can get the Panasonic for about the same price.

Blimey - if you can get that Samsung for the same price as that Panasonic then the Samsung seems like a massive bargain!

(Are you absolutely sure it's the same one? There are 2 other Samsung 37" LEDs down the page on amazon for £600-800. I bought a Neff oven a couple of years ago thinking it was a huge bargain but I was adrift by one digit - something like 3220 instead of 3320 - it's a good oven but not the bargain I thought it was!)

I think so. It is on this website - it won't let me link to the page, but if you put in the number UE37C6000 then it comes up. As far as I can see it is the same one as on Amazon. I have seen it cheaper on other UK websites for around £700. Don't know why it is so expensive on Amazon.

ah, OK - I found it at £700 on pixmania so yes, that amazon price is an aberration.

from what Which says, Samsung LED TVs are pretty good; but Panasonic are the best TVs in general so it depends whether you think the LED features make it worth going for the Samsung...

Hi again MmeL the link you wanted is http://www.digitec.ch/ProdukteDetails2.aspx?Reiter=Bilder&Artikel=202218 (they have done something odd - I had to enable JavaScript to see the description details and I feel websites should work without needing 'risky' facilities enabled, but some web site developers live in their own little geeky world!)

With no owner reviews I would suggest looking at the first two of the 'similar models' shown below.

713 Samsung UE37C6530 - like the one you viewed, it has internet connection, Motion refresh at 100 Hz (NB 6530 has HD Freeview aka DVB-T2 in the spec)
Likely to be a later model.

799 SAMSUNG 37 INCH LED TV 6 SERIES - motion refresh at 100 Hz, no internet connection, and perhaps cheaper as first appeared on Amazon in 2006.

There's one criticism about having only 1 SCART connection (the TV makers are assuming people will be switching to HDMI though some older flat screen TVs still have 2/3 SCART + 2/3 HDMI, but something to consider.

Also in the Amazon forum, someone wrote :-

"Mr. Branch - if you can afford the difference in price, then go with LED. You will be blown away by the difference in picture depth. I have both the Bravia s3000 you mention and a Samsumg 40" 7 series (UE40B7020W). The Sony was impressive when I bought it but I've demoted that to the bedroom as an "it'll do" TV when I saw the Samsungs picture. The only thing to be aware of is a consistant "miss" with LED TV's on their sound quality. All of the LED TV manufacturers are taking the opportunity to slim-down their products and as a consequence sound quality seems to have suffered. So you might need to consider a surround-sound system (2.1 would be fine) if you want to get the full experience."

Remember the LED part is the backlighting, the front section is still LCD, but the point about sound quality seems to be repeated here and there, with comments about many sets having only digital output [suitable for an AV ampliier and 5.1 home cinema speaker system, but perhaps not ideal if you just want left + right [+ sub-woofer] - a 2.1 speaker setup or a hi-fi left+right you may already have.

However, if you feed the TV from any kind of box (sat or Freeview) it may be easier to feed sound to an amp from that with 2 RCA phono plugs. Does your Swisscom box have separate audio output (I use my Freeview box for radio through a micro-CD system, TV is off more than on.

Personally I was tempted by the 40" LE40C580 even though it doesn't have the internet connection (a) on screen size and (b) as it is under 430 quid :)

Ponders - there are a couple of German firms selling that TV at over 1000 and a UK firm at 800+ but I guess it depends on whether someone spends a bit of time comparing within a site (or checking other sites for the same model) - some people have loads of cash and little time, so if a rich banker did a search and saw it at that price (+ 50 quid delivery) it may be of bragging value "Oh yes, decided I needed a new box and it was only 1200 quid" (!!!)

AbstractMouse - "in Tesco etc I've seen the flatscreen pictures looking blocky etc"

I suspect (despite them 'needing' to show things off at their best) there is a grotty TV signal and then they have electrical noise and so on, plus some awful amplifier to cope with the number of TVs on show. "Blocking" on a TV is usually because part of the digital signal is being interfered with and the electronics just makes the next few pixels the same colour as it cannot guess what the colour should be.

Before services moved to digital, on Teletext there was a test page showing the "divide by" (horiz bar with dot above and below) symbol and white squares, called the "Clock Cracker".

If you had a good signal the teletext page would show row after row of these alternating symbols (laid out so they alternated in both horiz and vertical planes, with white blob, divide by, white blob and so on. If there was interference (eg from a car driving down the road, showing white 'sparks' on the TV picture, some of the symbols would be blanked or show garbage.

Now what you see if Freeview box is picking up interference can include either no picture for a second or two [strong interference] down to blocking in a lot or a few places as the level of interference drops.

Sorry no web links - just based on 30+ years of experience :)

Bugger. That one is sold out now. Will look at the other one.

We do actually have cables laid for surround sound, installed by the previous tenants so it would not be a huge problem to get around the sound issue, if that bothered us.

Only just spotted your last post. The fact there are cables laid is a good thing, no work/cost for you.

Have you found a suitable TV now ? I'm just being nosy, you understand !!

Yes, the cables being laid already is handy.

Haven't ordered one yet, got distracted by a coffee machine so may have to wait until next month. The website I linked to - Digitech - they often have really good offers so I may keep an eye on the website and wait for something good to come up. They are often 30% cheaper than other stores.

Thanks for all your help.