Rejection from Oxford (Law) - pre-interview

[nicolepanizza]

Hi everyone,

I am new here, but I am wondering whether you could offer me support and/advice.

My daughter has just heard this week that she has been rejected, pre-interview, to study Law at Oxford. This has been her dream since primary school, and she is devastated. She is predicted AAA in her A-level studies (English Lit, History, Politics), and is a senior prefect in her school. She also completed an EPQ last year (Year 12), where she was awarded an A (internal moderation) but was downgraded to a B via AQA moderation (she was not a part of this sample, so it seems incredibly unfair that she was detrimentally affected. Her school requested a re-moderation, she was (once again) not a part of the sample that was re-moderated, and her grade remained at a B). She completed her LNAT, and was generally happy with her efforts. She has received a lowered offer from Durham (issued within a week of her application - which is great news), and is waiting on an offer from UCL, Kings, and Nottingham. I want to support her, but wonder whether I should also advise her to consider taking a year out, and re-applying to Oxford? Any advice will be gratefully appreciated...

Her predicted grades are A A A*....

Hi nicolepanizza, sorry to hear this. You may get more responses on the Higher Education board.

It depends whether oxford is the only aim. Her other universities are excellent so it really tests on how much she wants oxford in particular and why.

I’m assuming she was rejected due to LNAT?

I don’t know much about law in particular so hopefully a more experienced poster comes along !

Oxford only interviews 41% for law and only 14% are successful in their application. I know of other students predicted A* x 3 this year who have not been offered an interview. It is no reflection on your DD, it is simply a risk of applying to Oxford. My concern with reapplying next year with grades in hand would be that nothing else has changed and she may still not be offered an interview. Would she then feel that she has wasted a year? There is absolutely nothing wrong with a law degree from Durham.

Re-applying to Oxford reinforces the idea that it is the only/best option which makes it even more of a risk if it doesn't go well the second time.

Support your daughter in dealing with the rejection. It stings. It does bring an end to a particular dream.

But Oxford is still only a university after all, staffed by fallible human beings. It's not the promised land. Achieving your dream doesn't always feel the way you hope it will. Making the best of a disappointment can be very empowering in the long run.

(Anecdotally, both of the students I know who applied twice and were rejected twice had a really hard time getting over the second rejection. But then they ended up loving the universities where they 'ended up', without any obvious restriction on their job prospects. I also know someone who re-applied a year later for a different subject, was accepted, but experienced anxiety and 'imposter syndrome'.

OTOH you look at somebody like David Mitchell who has every air of being an absolutely typical confident Oxbridge person, and he was rejected from Oxford before applying successfully to Cambridge. Some years ago!)

Oxford have approximately 10 applications for every place on their law course. Everyone has a*aa. As tough as it is, not everyone gets a place

I would also point out that with the college system, which college you apply to can affect your chance of an offer, so extra curricular in something they are keen on helps. Everyone is academically high flying, if she wants to stand out she needs another string to her bow. Nothing wrong with other universities!

Unfortunately Oxbridge can afford to pick and choose, even where they may get it "wrong" there will be others equally good for them to offer a place to. It will take a while for her to come to terms with it, in the meantime others will be interviewed and may or may not get offers.

Dd got an Oxbridge offer last year (not Law) and missed it on offers day. She decided not to take up her insurance this year as she was not in the right headspace and needed time to deal with her disappointment, is reapplying for 2020 but not to Oxbridge as whole process took its toll. There will be very good alternatives for your dd and she has time to get enthusiastic about that.

Many many years ago I got rejected from Oxbridge (post-interview) and went to Durham instead. I can’t tell you how glad I am that I ended up there! Obvs tray doesn’t help your daughter but IMHO this bird in the hand is very much worth it, to paraphrase/misquote an earlier poster 😁

I'm really sorry about your daughter's disappointment: it is such a tough process emotionally. She has lots of time to make a decision about this after she has done her A levels. I would encourage her to continue with the UCAS process and to focus on doing the best she possibly can in her A levels. Once the results are out she can see how she feels and if she wants to take a gap year and reapply. She may fell very differently by then.

Can she ask for her LNAT scores? That would also give an indication of it is worth reapplying. But basically, as everyone will tell you, it is mostly just a lottery given the numbers of equally high-flying students applying and the places they have available.

Oxford won’t look at what you can offer the college she chose. They look at her law application.

My DD is a barrister. Her boyfriend is a barrister. He went to Durham and DD went to Bristol. Neither did Law. It’s very true that Oxbridge grads are very over represented in Law in high flying careers but other universities are represented and Durham is about the best of the rest. UCL is good too. I don’t think she would lose anything by going to Durham.

There are many tests to get through before you get a training contract or a pupillage. Even when you have this you need to go through a selection process for regency if you want to be a barrister.

University is the first hurdle after A levels. On top of that will be scholarships. Internships and interviews for a training contract/pupillage - all of which are ludicrously competitive. Oxbridge is a great start but I’m not sure it’s worth doing a gap year. Durham would also be fantastic.

Regency??? Tenancy.

TBH everyone’s predicted grades for law at Oxford will be AAA* it really is one of those things which should only really be regarded as a long shot .

My Dh is a lawyer he went to Durham ( as did I !) getting into Durham is an achievement and her other choices are great too .

My ds is applying to Oxbridge this year , not for law and no news yet but he is just treating it as an adventure in itself . Pretty much everyone who applies will have top grades , for what it’s worth none of his not inconsiderable extra curriculars made it into his personal statement . The feedback was academics, academics all the way

I would also advise heading over to the Higher Education board here where there is lots of info and support for parents such dc applying this year.

Sorry that should say AAA*

Not sure why my phone keeps correcting what should be 3x A*

Too many stars putting it into bold? You many need to resort to A star.

I would take a place at Nottingham if it is offered. It is well regarded and is also one of the universities that has a good record of its students getting pupillages if she wants to be a barrister. To give you a comparison, I know a student at Edge Hill studying law - according to him, less than five hours a week actual attendance vs (I understand) 40 hours at Nottingham. I'm happy to be proven wrong ... just passing on what I have been told. Worth double-checking.

I wouldn't wait for another year for Oxford personally unless she could use the year off to get some work experience in law... and I'm not convinced that will make much difference when other graduates may be applying with expected grades of four or more As.

Has your DD considered studying something other than law, then doing a conversion course? She could reapply to study history at Oxford next year, which has lower entrance requirement and higher acceptance rate than law. There are plenty of reasons not to do that, but it is an alternative option to consider.

It's a huge risk. Huge. What if she's rejected again? Which unless something changes she likely will be. She'd have to spend that year off doing something fairly special to be able to say it was useful. What would she do?

Then what?

Law is a long hard arduous route if she wishes to practice, be it as a solicitor or a barrister. It's six years min as a solicitor to qualify. Three years degeee, one year lpc, (potentially two) and then two years training.

Personally I'd advise her to look at other unis, and not delay, because it's a huge risk.

I can't believe the 5 hours Versus 40 hours.
I do a law degree and for 3 year llb it's 3 hours contact time per week (lectures and tutorials) so 9 hours then 10 hours self study per subject to do reading and prepare for tutorials. No one would have 40 hours contact time, that would be more than 9-5 every day in class.
So there is a misunderstanding there.
Unless all work is done in groups? So no self study. I think York may do that which seems odd, what If your group is rubbish!

I know for a fact that the 5 hours is correct as it's a close friend's son and he works two pub jobs during the bulk of most days. Less certain about the Notts as I have no one to ask but when au did a conversion course there in mid 90s, it was 40 then - it may be because it was a conversion course. Having said that, I originally qualified in a medical science and we were in the lecture theatres / labs full time five and sometimes six days a week (in mid 1980s).