Calling Scaryteacher , can I bend your ear please?

[flossie64]

Sorry to bother you ,but could you give me any info on Brussels , Dh has been asked by the poster if he would take a job there, it starts in March 2010. I am right in thinking you live out there?
Anything ewould be useful, its a NATO job of some sort. TIA

"There are military jobs out here for UK Forces, but some don't feel that Belgium is 'foreign' enough; and if they are thrusters, they perceive NATO and the EUMS to be sleepy backwaters; which is untrue. You trade a possibility of promotion, and an ulcer in MoD, with a great quality of life out here."

That certainly seems to be the perception amongst the Army types we know. I'd love a posting to Brussels but the husband (who worked at the APC and helped with the boarding process and, therefore, knows whereof he speaks) says it's career suicide unless you definitely want to take your foot off the peddle. So, we're looking at fortnightly commuting from Northwood to Scotland when he gets back from tour while he earns that ulcer in the bunker!

There was a cushy posting to Italian staff college, followed by and SO2's appt Rome on the husband's job rotation. I (gently) suggested that he run for that. He (equally gently) suggested that if he was planning on hanging up his boots any time soon, then he would but as he's intent on a full career and determined to rise as high as his abilities will take him, then it wasn't a good idea.

Ah well. Such is Forces life, eh?

Well, the guy who heads up the EUMS is a Lt-Gen (UK) as is the UKMILREP, so there are big shots out here.

People get promoted to Captain from Cdr here (Lt-Col to Col in Army terms), so it's not entirely sleepy hollow, and they get a chance to build on their staff training (dh was a DS at Bracknell / Shrivenham) and use it to the full.

It also depends on where you are in career terms. Dh is half way through his penultimate job - promotions to Captain were few and far between for the RN last year, especially for the engineers, and he doesn't want to spend his last job chasing an ever decreasing pot of money at MoD, plus the commute to Cornwall sucks from London.

Been there, done Northwood about 10/11 years ago.

We've had the promotion versus quality of life discussion and decided at this stage that whilst promotion would be nice and provide a boost to the pension, we are happy out here and would like to stay. Furthermore....you have to start thinking fairly early on about life after the services. My dh retires at 53; we are trying to get ducks in a row for after that, and be in the right place for him to apply for the right job at the right time.

Looking at the amount of UK Army Officers out here, several seem to be very committed to career suicide - it's a shame the Army think like that, there's a lot to learn out here.

We're already thinking about life after the Army but, so far, my husband is not sure of what he would like to do. We're both only 35 at the moment and right now he's aiming off for the pink list (he gets his first look in 2011).

I think there are some people who look at the Brussels jobs and think more objectively about them but some cap badges (my husband's amongst them) are more of the opinion that out of sight is out of mind and that it takes one off the radar for the crunchy jobs.

I agree with you that the Army attitude is jaundiced to say the least. It's a great pity that focus seems to be Whitehall-based and that anything else is very much second eleven. A good friend of ours is on an exchange posting to Australia and thoroughly enjoying the job. However, before she accepted the posting, she was told that it would effectively put her in the 'B' stream for subsequent postings - a great shame because the job has turned out to be very challenging and rewarding. There's definitely a decision to be made vis a vis quality of life v promotion and - so far - we've come down more on the side of promotion. How long we can sustain that remains to be seen.

My dh (48) is a Cdr and has been for 10 years. He's done the senior engineering jobs available in his specialism, and was faced with unappealing jobs that he would have been bored with, or coming to Brussels. He thoroughly enjoyed his first appointment here; is still fascinated after 2 years with his second (unusual) and wants a third here.

The problem is that the promotion curve is going right; I'm presuming your dh is a major? My db is the RN equivalent and is telling me that the average age now for promotion to Cdr is 43, so he has a bit of a wait yet. Dh had been a Cdr for 5 years at that point. (Got promoted out of Northwood, where he did a RN/purple job; it was a bit of both; worked for the next chief of the general staff).

Dh has decided that promotion will come if it comes, but the quality of life is more important. The organisation that he is seconded to at the moment allows them to have flexi time, so he has two days off a month. Bargain! Wouldn't get that in the UK. His Colonel seems to like it too!

I think (from listening to friends) that promotion in the Army varies wildly from cap badge to cap badge. Some are very much in the waiting for dead men's shoes, others are more rapid. There are guys with whom my husband was at RMAS (he passed out in '99) who are only now coming off the beige list, while my husband beiged four years ago and is looking at promotion to Lt Col in years few - this is not unusual for his cap badge where people generally are promoted more quickly.

We're in a holding position right now, taking each posting as it comes while we try to figure out what we want from life as well as from the Army. Commuting suits us right now, but it might not in the future. Whether or not he stays in will be predicated on the postings he's offered and whether he continues to be interested in the job and lifestyle of the Army. I suppose as long as the carrot is bigger than the stick, we're in.

Tell him to transfer to the RN, they are far more fun, especially the submariners!

Laughed at your dh passing out in '99 - my dh is going back to UK in September for a mess dinner to celebrate 30 years since joining BRNC! I hadn't even done my O levels then! (I was 13 same age as ds is now!).

Interesting you're weekending/fornighting... from the Army wives out here I gather that's unusual. They are always v shocked that the RN wives don't move for every job...difficult when they're at sea and under it to boot.

I had a quick calculation and over here there's roughly 75 UK officers, less of the RAF than the other two,RN and Army roughly equal.

There were quite a few raised eyebrows when we told people we were doing it as the expectation is still that you move with the serving spouse. We decided to do it two years ago (when our first child was born) in order to provide me with a bit of stability by being near my family and to provide a bit of support to my mother (my father has MS and cancer). I know of a few Army wives who've done it but most of those seem to have spouses at the end of their careers and they're putting down roots prior to retiring. It's still unusual for 'younger' personnel to do so. However, it's getting more common as people try to get a foot on the property ladder and as settled schooling becomes more of a priority.

We've not ruled out a move back into MQs - it depends on the posting but we'll probably bounce back and forth between our own home and quarters depending on what suits us at any given time.

As for the '99 passing out date, when my husband was DS at RMAS (2003-2005) they had a welcome dinner at which the commandant asked everyone when they'd passed out. Most people were around the 95/96 date then my husband blithely announced that he'd passed out less than four years previously. They made a joke that all he'd done was move his kit from the platoon lines into the OC's bunk!

We've been married since 86, and moving to Brussels in 06 was the first time I had lived in an MQ since I was 7. We've always had our own place.

It was interesting when the AFPRB came out here and I went to one of the meetings at NATO, how many Lt-Col Army types when asked said they didn't own any property. I find that scary, because they must know that MQs disappear when you leave the Services, and even with a full gratuity and pension, you're not going to be able to buy much. Good on you for doing it your way.

France is back in NATO but no-one likes them much so far. Massive problem if you're French and want a job there! He would currently be A3, will try and persuade him to wait until he's A2!

Belgium suits us - plenty of schools where I might be able to teach without jumping through bloody French hoops, both of us speak French, he also speaks Dutch so dealing with arsey Flemish people wouldn't be a problem.

One of his next posting possibilities is Ile de la Reunion though! Brussels vs. tropical paradise.....

Yeah, we know that one Frakkin! They weren't popular BEFORE they rejoined either!

Wrong way round gradewise - A2 is a lower grade job than an A3. The expectation is that most people including those who are currently in the A4 military equivalent like my dh, may have to take an A2 to get a foot in the door on the civilian side.

The Flemish aren't arsey actually, so much pleasanter than the Francophones I've come across, who will not help out language wise, whereas the Flemish speakers will. I live in a Flemish area, and prefer it to the French speaking one that dh lived in before.

You'd have to pick where you wanted to teach and live very carefully as there is a lot of conflict linguistically between the French and Flemish speakers here.

is rubbish at the grading stuff

Okay he's a minion at the moment, but a minion with gold stripes.

I'm sure they weren't too popular before they rejoined - they just didn't have to deal with the other people not liking them Now I find myself suddenly having to speak to NATO people because I'm the only English speaking wifelet...and the minute the find out I'm not actually French they spend the whole time complaining about the French and how no-one likes them and they won't play nice. It's like being in the playground at work.

Not liking the sound of lingiustic conflict I'll leave the decision to him unless you tell me Flemish is impossible to learn in which case I vote we live in the Francophone area (where they will all look sidewise at me and whisper about 'l'anglaise la-bas' knowing full well I understand them...)

Unfortunately, the stripes don't seem to make a huge amount of difference when the civilian side jobs come up. A Group Captain married to a friend of mine, so Royal Navy Captain/Army Colonel equivalent, had to take an A2 posting to get his foot in the door (effectively an A5 to an A2 drop).

Your dp needs to get his options lined up, as applying for the NATO jobs is a long and convoluted process, and there is little point in leaving one job in this climate before securing the next. Some of the jobs are only for 3 years as well.

There is a big language divide here. To the south of Brussels (roughly) is Wallonia, which is Francophone (Flemish not spoken); some of the communes within Brussels are Francophone; some are resolutely Vlaamse tal, and I live in a Flemish area. Luckily for me, I live in an area where there is a large international population, so most people will speak English, but in the Gemeente (commune offices) and the tax offices they will ONLY speak Flemish to you. Same goes for the tip.

It is unadvisable in certain Flemish areas to speak French; in a gemeente near me the Estate agents have been sent notices telling them to desist from displaying notices in French and English, they must only use Flemish or they will be fined.

Flemish is not impossible to learn, I did two years and can get by, and my ds is doing it for his second foreign language at school I found it hard as grammatically it is a lot like German with verbs at the end of the sentence, and it is very gutteral as well.

Oh. We won't be living in a Flemish area then or we'll have to be REALLY careful about what language we speak in public and that would just be annoying.

We are lining up options - hence the research now... I like being prepared but he's much more 'oh we'll take it as it comes and I'll find a job I like'. I can now go bug him whilst sounding knowledgeable about it. Thank you scary!

I speak English and French in public so it's not a bother, but there are some places like the town hall where it is policy that only Flemish is spoken. If your dp speaks Flemish, what's the problem.

He needs to secure a job here first before you start thinking about all the other stuff!

TBH I wouldn't be happy with him finding a job in Brussels if I wasn't happy living there. I've had enough of us living apart! Thus possible jobs need to be considered very carefully. I'm still up for something in Brussels. You haven't put me off yet.

Well the rocket up the backside apparoach has certainly got my DH doing something.
He has spoken with poster again ,told him he knows of a job at Waddington ,that ties in with his time lines . Also said he would still like to be considered for any suitable post in Brussels / Mons. If he does get stuck here for the forseeable , he has even put paperwork in to apply for an MQ at HW.
I laughed today ,as he got his copy of his OJAR, the 2nd RO (4*) said he should make an effort to be a bit more visible and more of a force to be reckoned with. It is what I have been telling him for years.Thank God someone else finally said it. He will chase the poster next week again ,but then will have to play the waiting game for a while
Please keep your fingers crossed for us.

Jesus, Fran, of the 23 years we've been married, the 3 years we've had in Brussels are the longest we've lived together. We did two years with him here and me and ds in the West Country. It's part of service life and if he stays in the French Navy, you have to learn to deal with it.

I'm not trying to put you off Brussels; I live about 20 minutes from the centre and I really enjoy being here. However, competition for the civvy NATO jobs is very strong and also for the functionnaire jobs at the EU. That's why I said get the job first, then look at where you want to live.

Flossie - ask for Brussels not Mons, we get better housing!!!

Yeah but he's not staying in the Navy, hence the planning for civvy jobs. He's not a career officer, he's a contract officer so either he takes one more contract after which he'll have done too much to renew again or he comes out when his current contract is up. We were thinking if he puts his hand up now and says he'd like a posting to Brussels it might increase the chances of a civvy job later, but I'm getting the impression it doesn't work like that!

The big problem, as you rightly point out, is that those sort of jobs are so competitive to get...

Well it wouldn't hurt would it, doing a Brussels job? You could spy out the lie of the land; decide if you like it here or not - what's to lose?

Never heard of a contract officer - ours have commissions which can be renewed by mutual consent I think, but for dh and db, they joined before those came in and are both on full career commissions.

You do get contract officers in the Army - FTRS (full-time reserve service) where they do a Regular job for up to two years and can renew/extend/swap jobs. Mind you, I think there's a limit on how many contracts they can do and there are certain jobs that are not open to them.

My husband joined on a short-service commission (as do all Army officers) and swapped onto a RegC after about four years, so he's in it for the long haul. :D

A Brussels job sounds interesting to me - pity I can't interest the husband in it!

I never think of the reservists as being contract officers, mainly I suppose because many are regulars who go on the reserve list when they retire; but thinking about it, the RNR hostilities only officers played a huge part in WW2, and I suspect many RN reservists are serving in hot sandy places now to supplement the Army.