Help with new goldfish, it's all going wrong

[Booboostwo]

DD won two fish at her school bingo (preschool gambling is all the rage apparently) and we went to collect them today. As expected it was a con and we got fish worth 3 euros but paid 110 euros for their aquarium ( and two more friends).

The advice the shop gave us was a bit crap. They gave us water from their tank to put in ours but it was so little it barely covered the sand. So we had no choice but to add a lot of tap water which disturbed the sand and made the whole water very muddy - of course we have not put the fish in there yet!

We have a filter which is trying to clean the mess, a heater which is working and have put a chemical in to try to balance the water. We got really worried about leaving the fish in their bags so now they are in a contained with their original water, the contained itself is balanced inside the tank but not in contact with the muddy water. This way the container will remain reasonably warm we hope. Was that the bets thing to do?

We also placed a piece of cardboard partly over the container trying to hedge our bets between allowing oxygen and preventing the fish from jumping out. Was that a good idea?

Will the sandy water have settled by tomorrow? I am very disappointed in the rubbish advice we got. I've never owned fish before but I tried to follow the instructions.

Oh goodness, poor fish! The shop assistant was a total wanker then! I explained to him that I didn't want fish just to torture and kill them a few days later!

OK one step at a time. I have them in a small plastic container with the water they came from, how long can they stay in that? Should I be changing part of their water?

The tank is full of water that was dechlorinated yesterday but it still looks muddy from the sand. When will they be able to go in there?

Shall I switch the heater off completely or lower it to 20 C?

Sorry for all the questions and thank you for all the help. I am reluctant to return them to the shop as they had hundreds of them in a tank and they will just die. I need to think about long term options...can they eventually live in natural ponds?

Goldfish are cold water creatures and do not need any kind of artificial heat!

Water from yesterday that is cloudy won't have done much yet because you haven't got any bacterial agent in it to start the cycling.

You would be best to put the fish in a bowl, clear out the tank if sand etc, fill it with clean water, dechlorinate it and out then back in with the filter but no heat. It's not ideal but it's better than what you appear to have at the moment. Long term the tank needs cycling etc byt for now they will not do badly in fresh dechlorinated water. put a small amount of their own water in but no sand for now.

Yes common goldfish.

Don't feel bad, it's down to shops who have no morals. They have sold you a heater you don't need and fish that are going to outgrow that tank quickly they will get MASSIVE.
Within 5 weeks my tiny fish grew so much it couldn't turn in the tank and had to flip over.

Realistically your options now are

1. take them back
2. get them in a pond. The space 4 common goldfish need is huge. The guide I've found says 114L per fish. But there is a ton of conflicting advice out there.

Goldfish are very hardy fish, mine have been through 2 cycles. My first tank never cycled before they got moved into their large tank so ended up going through it again.

It's the tank unfortunately that's going to be a issue.

I've added some info for you on tank size guides so you can ID your fish and see what size they will need.

I've also added a complete guide I used myself. Please note when this article talks about size it is referring to fancy goldfish. The care will be the same tho. I've also added one with water parameters and what reading it should be. It's a handy guide but a bit premature ATM.

ID of fish and tank size:
completegoldfishcare.com/goldfish-types/common-goldfish-types/

Goldfish care sheet:
completegoldfishcare.com/goldfish-tank/goldfish-tank/

Water parameters:
completegoldfishcare.com/goldfish-tank/aquarium-water-testing-parameters/

so goldfish are cold water, tropical fish are warm water and marine fish need a heck of a lot of heat and additives and a carefully balanced system to replicate sea water in a tank.

Goldfish - no heat.

Personally I would take them back and get some when you are fully prepared. People underestimate the time, money and effort that goes into caring for fish, it's a constant battle to keep them happy and healthy as you are replicating a water environment in a tank. They get fin rot, white spot, parasites etc particularly if they have been stressed or kept in less than ideal conditions. They are so cheap to buy but so expensive to maintain over the years. You need to replace tank ornaments, filters, clean them out a lot and when you go away you need someone to feed them and do water changes. It's a massive commitment.

Your water still looks very murky.

I would personally ditch the sand and start from scratch again and use gravel.

Rinse the gravel well under the tap.
Add that to the tank and use decloeinator it's immediately safe.
If you can use a themoter and match the temp of the water the fish are currently in.

The tank won't cycle and won't be cycled for weeks so I would start again onece the temp and decloeinator is in put the fish in there are no benefits to letting them wait in separate water as it could just stress the fish more.

My fish are kept at 22oc but you do not need a heater at all. I would take that back!

Yes sorry forgot to say I have taken away the heater.

OK for now I will redo the tank without the sand and they can hopefully go in tomorrow and survive.

I see the problem with the tank size! Thank you for all the links. I have found a 300 l tank second hand for reasonable money, might that do as a second tank? Ultimately we have a small natural lake, might they go there (we are in the south of France)?

Il be honest the bigger the tank the easier the maintenance is but for that size you will be looking a huge external filter so you may need to look at a tank with the cabinet under to house the filtration.

It's always better to over filter so my tank is 200L but my filter is for a 300L as they are messy but means the cleaning is not as often.

I honestly have no idea for the lake.

Try and get your tank up and running ASAP. Ignore everything the shop have said. The water conditioner works immediately.

Gravel is easy to maintain but you do need a siphon. When you get to that stage have a look on YouTube as it can be tricky. Mine wouldn't suck up the water last week so I sucked on the end and I wasn't quick enough and got water up the wall my H was not impressed.

At least you didn't swallow the water!

Tank has been cleaned, hasn't done any favors to my herniated disc but there you go.

Ok next problem...house is too small for 300 L tank, can I put it in a stable? There is electrical supply, it is shaded and partly open to the elements on one side.

I can imagine that is one hell of a tank.

Out of sunlight is good as Algy will build up on the glass.

You just need to make sure your electrics are safe and won't get wet.

Does this new tank come with a filter? And cabinet? As that is a lot of weight otherwise.

Also positioning of the tank near a tap is a good idea as that's a lot of trips with buckets otherwise

If o/p completely cleans the tank though she'll be losing the beneficial bacteria that she has from the water the pet shop gave her? I understood that water/filter squeezings from an established tank was the best and quickest way to get a new tank cycling?

I'd maybe keep as much water as possible, get rid of the sand, and do partial water changes every day until the tank is cycled.

If you have a friend with a tank if they'll give you a piece of filter sponge or a good squeezing of one that will help kick start things.

The OP did say the water barley covered the sand that the pet shop gave her.

I've never used sand but with the filter running I would of thought it would of cleared up the water by today.

Well it's done. The water was completely cloudy despite the filter running since yesterday. I did lose the water from the pet shop but it was a tiny amount. They went in with the water they came with so that might help? I have three plants as well so maybe they brought some good bacteria?

Second hand tank comes with cabinet, but not filter so have to consider the cost of that, electrics are newly done and hose pipe is available.

Gloo-Gloo, Gladys, Goldie and Girlie. So far so good is the best that can be said!

Oh my goodness they are tiny ATM.

Plants will definitely help.

If you can on your filter there should be a nossle sticking out that water flows through. If you can get that up high on the water line it will aggravate the surface and produce bubbles and oxygen for the fish.

When you get the bigger tank I would consider a air pump as well. It doesn't clean but it gets the water moving and provides oxygen.

My goldies love playing in the bubbles.

Good job, boo boo! when lacking a cycled tank, the next best thing is fresh water and plenty of it, dechlorinated. People can sound too long trying to get the perfect conditions and meanwhile the fish suffer, they'd be better off in a clean tank. You will notice they will be swimming around quite happily, if they are sick they slow down and look miserable, but if they are eating and nosing about then usually they are fine.

Another tip is get some aquarium salt. Have some in, it's not expensive and can perk up fish if they are struggling a little, particularly with lots of water changes. Dose according to packet for your tank size.(I'm sure you would read the instructions, but some might dump some straight in)!

Thank you everyone, I will try all the tips and let you know how we get on.

@Booboostwo
You wasn't in wilko tonight was you?

No, I live in France. Had to Google Wilko!

Oh yes sorry I read that before. Just overheard someone in there today buying goldfish stuff and asking the same questions as you. Thought it might be too much of a coincidence. I should have butted in and told her to sign up to mn and read this thread

More than one fools around then? That's reassuring!

I'll be in Gamm Vert tomorrow buying salt, alkaline balancers, acid balancers, etc. pretending to know what I am doing!

Omg. Ask your school never to use live animals as prizes for anything ever again!

You've had great advice re the fish...

Another question please...

I now have water testers, P/H balancer, more dechlorinator (and waiting for the salt), so in what order do I do things?

I assume I start with a tester?
Then cycle the water?
Then retest?
The P/H balancer?
Then retest?

I've done a test on the water as is
NO3 between 10 and 20
NO2 0
GH OK
KH 6
Ph 7.6
CI2 0

All this seems good, right?

Your water readings are absolutely fine. Your PH is perfect so I would avoid adding and PH balance.

As your tank was filled fresh yesterday your water should be good for a few days. But keep testing. As your cycling the levels will all rise up. Before it drops to 0.

Ammonia should be 0PPM
nitrate (NO2) should be 0PPM
Nitrite (NO3) should be upto 40PPM. Anymore than 40PPM water change.

When ammonia & nitrates rise water change.

Most important things now are.

Minimal feeding and when you clean your filter rinse the sponge in a bucket of used tank water NOT fresh water out your tap. As it's all out the filter media building up good bacteria.

The biggest mistake I made was every time I cleaned my tank I thoroughly cleaned my filter sponge in hot tap water as it was filthy so my first tank never cycled that was on recommendation from a friend who kept fish for a very very long time so should of known better. My second big mistake was when I was water changing I was just taking out the water and replacing with fresh conditioned water. I didn't use a siphon so never cleaned the gravel for a few weeks. When I did it was filthy as we were over feeding massively.

Welcome to the world of fish keeping as this is how it starts for most people. Give it 6 months and I guarantee you will have atleast 2 tanks