My Fair Lady

[maddiemookins16mum]

I’d forgotten just how vile (bullying, sexist etc) Henry Higgings is to Eliza.
Shame as the costumes were great.
(and of course the fact Julie Andrews should have had the role instead of Audrey Hepburn who was dubbed by Marni Nixon (the Mother of Andrew Gold).

what about Beauty and the Beast

AnotherBloomingChristmas

Yes! On the Street Where You Live is one of the best songs EVER! The most brilliant lyrics, great melody. So glad someone else gets it.

Bernard Shaw, at the end of Pygmalion, wrote an interesting essay on why he believed that Eliza would marry Freddy, and how it would be a mistake. It's worth reading.
As a side note, a poster mentioned South Pacific, which I watched for the first time yesterday. Apparently it was ground breaking in its treatment of Racism, for the time.

We're in danger of going too far the other way now. There's the horribly modern-looking Marie Antoinette that they're previewing on TV at the moment and the ridiculous recent version of Persuasion where Anne drank wine straight from the bottle and talked about her ex. If you're going to set something in the 18thc they should behave like 18th century people, otherwise just put them in modern dress.

was it not always a slightly satirical interpretation of the Greek myth of Pygmalion - who falls in love with his own creation?

i don’t think it was ever meant to be taken at face value. The point is about Elisa’s growth as a person, how her new position means she cannot return to her old life nor fit in completely in the new one, leaving her trapped with Higgins. It’s worth watching for that lesson alone - you cannot unlearn something and return to the past.

If you're going to set something in the 18thc they should behave like 18th century people, otherwise just put them in modern dress.
Or just write your own story!
Mind you, I really dislike colour-blind casting too.

It was Jeremy Brett but not his voice singing, it was Bill Shirley.

Yes, it is satirical. In the Greek myth, Pygmalion falls in love with his statue, and there’s no interest in whether a newly-born statue-turned-human might feel similarly or not. Shaw is interested in social class and female emancipation, and was quite clear that the climax of the play was Higgins acknowledging Eliza’s independence at the moment she frees herself from him. There are several variant endings, but Shaw did not see E and H together. In one version there’s a tender goodbye between them and we see E and Freddy marrried and happy. Some producers ‘softened’ the E/H split by making it more ambiguous.

I think for this discussion alone it’s worth not cancelling every old piece of art on the basis that it doesn’t “stand up by todays standards” just because we are looking at it on face value. There are lessons to be learned here.

i did read the play several years ago and cannot remember it completely. Even when she is free though, she is not free of societal expectation. Another example of this allegory is Educating Rita which wouldn’t stand up today either but still gives us the message that man raises up woman, woman must be eternally grateful, society will not accept this hybrid cross class woman and so she is bound to her creator and never really free. There’s so much to be said for this film that does still stand up today if you look past the songs.

@Tonsiltrouble Another one in that mould is High Society - Grace Kelly was 26, Frank Sinatra was 40, Bing Crosby was 53 and John Lund was 45. If Bing is supposed to be her ex-husband, what age were he/she supposed to be when they were married! And all the male characters are so patronising to her in the film.

It's an extremely interesting film on umpteen different levels.

Is it not good to watch films set in the past and then reflect on how far we have come rather than pretend that everything use to be as it is today.

Has anyone seen the current big touring production, the one that originated in NY? We have tickets and I’m curious how they’ve updated it. If they have

The "Where the devil are my slippers?" line is tongue in cheek. He has realised that he is in love with her at this point (I've grown accustomed to her face). Eliza has chosen to return. He asks for his slippers in a tongue in cheek way then poses with his hat over his face. Eliza smiles; she doesn't rush to get them in a servile manner. They understand each other and her return on her own terms puts them on more of an equal footing. (Yes, I know they are not equal in that period due to gender, class, finances etc).

Calamity Jane is another one that doesn't stand up well but I still love. The treatment of and attitudes to 'Indians' and how she changes as soon as a man shows an interest in her.

We're in danger of going too far the other way now. There's the horribly modern-looking Marie Antoinette that they're previewing on TV at the moment and the ridiculous recent version of Persuasion where Anne drank wine straight from the bottle and talked about her ex

The French are reputedly very unhappy about that Marie Antoinette series - which given the way she was treated by the French is a bit surprising, but perhaps they feel a bit guilty at last. And the Persuasion with Sally Hawkins was an utter travesty. I wouldn't have been surprised if there had been earthquakes in Winchester when that aired.

Interestingly it's called My Fair Lady because it's the way Eliza would have said Mayfair.

I never knew that! Every day's a school day!

I saw it in the west end back in the summer and I think that's the one now going on tour. It's pretty close to the film and the second half is rather drawn out (used to fast forward that bit as a kid!). Eliza is played by a really good black actor and to me that adds a whole new layer to her poor treatment.

I don't know, I used to love it for its depiction of London but so many musicals are full of very patronising male characters who need redemption and/or to be tamed.

I have a 12 yo daughter and she is much more into modern musicals (Six, & Juliet etc) which I think do a great job of focusing on really strong female characters in their own right.

It might be the way Audrey Hepburn would say Mayfair as flower girl Eliza but no real cockney talks like that.

Wow, I can see that now.

He is almost too severe and pinch nosed to be handsome older, bit was terribly handsome in mfl.

Really wouldn't have imagined him as a singer.

Ok, do he wasn't a singer lol

Apparently while listening to Beethoven or someone..... 80 years before the gramophone was invented.

Or did the sidelined, quiet sibling of the Elliott family have a mini chamber orchestra at her personal disposal in her bedroom.

Travesty.

I haven't seen the full thing, what I saw didn't look too bad (aside from the kiss-bite climactic scene that Harry Hill took the piss out of). What was so bad about it?

Oh I thought he was dishy as Sherlock Holmes, but obviously, more so as Freddie.
He may well have had a terrific singing voice for all I know, as might Audrey Hepburn.