Social services remove kids , mental health

[Trappedx]

I need some advice on what to do..

partner stopped taking her medicine in may r and has been relapsing since may

Childrens social services have been involved and due to partners recent manic episodes have said kids not allowed to stay at home.

she is on a section 2 , but due to bed shortages has been left at home with me
She has now restarted her medicine
home treatment team have increased her medicine and come every day to do assessment and keep saying to get pcr test so they can move her to hospital out of area. She is refusing pcr test and I’m stuck at home with her and no kids

any advice???

[tunnocksreturns2019]

Honestly, call your MPs office as soon as they open for today. Different situation but I contacted mine recently and the power they had to get a solution when nothing else worked was astounding. Worth a go along with everything else more knowledgable posters have suggested. All the best

[Soontobe60]

@Trappedx

This is the thing she has been sectioned officially but just left at home. This will be her 3rd detention in hospital if they take her but they are not doing so.
Police won’t remove her and keep her in cell until they got a bed even out of area I’ve have requested this but no joy

Previous times she was sectioned they took her straight away ..this is pure torture for me and kids

MH team and Dr come every day assess her , tell me she is improving but needs hospital but they have no beds and then leave me with her

Is this even legally allowed?
Section 2 is to detain and treat , is there any organisations or other services that can help

Of course the police won’t take her and put her in a cell! That’s the absolute worst thing for her.
I assume your dc are stopping with a trusted relative rather than just randomly moving from one house to another? At their age, and also assuming they’ve seen their mother in this state before (as you said she’d been sectioned previously) they will likely understand why she can’t be with them - they may well be relieved at not having to witness the deterioration in her mental health for a short time.
Social services won’t remove the children if other relatives are able to look after them - and I assume you’re able to do so once your dp goes into hospital?
You mentioned her refusing to have a PCR. Why is this? Is it because she’s been told she won’t be hospitalised until she has one? So it’s an element of control.

[onedayiwillflyaway1]

@Egonspengler2020 This is sound advice

[Trappedx]

They told her pcr test to get her to out of area hospital and she refused obviously she lacks capacity on her illness and everything else

I’m contacting my MP today as this needs to be sorted. I want my kids back home

Social worker saying kids can visit for a few hours but not sleep , she’s changed her narrative so many times through this assessment at first she was trying DV or DA and I have been telling them it’s mental health issues all along

[NynaeveSedai]

You're absolutely right that she needs to have a bed available.
This isn't the job of social services or housing to sort out. Housing may accommodate you and the children temporarily but more likely they will say that she needs to leave the home. Social services cannot provide a hospital bed or accommodation for you.

[Platax]

You need to contact Mind and get a referral to expert solicitors. Would you or your wife qualify for legal aid?

[Trappedx]

How can I make her leave the home against her will

I’ve asked police for advice, MH for advice and even CSC .

They start talking about human rights and other legalities as to why I can’t throw her out, police even said charges could be put on me if I tried to do anything!!!

I feel sick by all this being going for nearly a week now ..
CSC have said if no beds by this weekend then they looking at going straight to court to put kids in care. MH team Still saying no beds available. I’m saying they need to take her so I can have my kids at home or re-assess her if kids can be back one way or the other . No one’s denying she’s not well and needs treatment, she’s more stable now than she was previous 9 months and taking her meds again Today I’m asking them again if she’s still a risk then they need to take her if not the mental health team need to tell CSS that kids can be allowed back with supervision

So frustrated and feeling depressed myself now

[Trappedx]

Yes she would

[WellThisIsShit]

Good lord, what an awful position you are in.

Unfortunately I can well imagine it due to the strain on resources and compassion fatigue of mental health resources resulting in sometimes such extreme decisions that seem indefensible from the outside looking in.

Their decision process under stress becomes based on their own bureaucracy and processes vs humanity and any other concerns for people beyond their own specialism…

So don’t rely on them as ‘professionals’ to safeguard your family or care about your children. All they will care about (going off your op) is not having your partner on their books as an urgent person to find a bed for. As beds really are that difficult to find.

However that is NOT your problem, and you DO exist in the ‘real world’ … and need to balance all the needs of your family and not just one single person at the expense of the needs of the two children!

So you cannot let them stamp over you just because they are the ‘professionals’ or they are ‘in charge’. It sounds like they are heading you straight into losing your children and they won’t care at all or take any responsibility for having caused it, the big machinery will churn over you and your family and not care what happens to you all … sorry to sound so cynical there!

But you need to fight back!

I would look at the idea of taking your partner to A&E, and any other ideas of removing her swiftly from the home… in order that you can return your children to you.

If that cannot work then you need to leave your partner where she is (& potentially default on rent/payments there? Tricky and if it’s your own home not ideal).

But the fundamental thing is that you need to be reunited with your children abd in solde charge of them. And children’s services need to be happy with this arrangement and see you as the main parent who is protecting his children.

Children’s services could view the situation extremely badly even though you’ve been forced into this position.

eg not prioritising them or caring about their well-being as you were happy to ‘lose track of their daily needs’ as they are left to take care of themselves sofa surfing at other people’s houses … whilst you continue to stay at the family home, with your partner, focused on your partner.

You have to be seen as a functioning parent who is putting his children first. You cannot be seen as expendable. Or weak. Or not really engaged with your children.

You HAVE to be living in the same place as your children. You just have to be, & that needs to be your absolute priority.

I’m so sorry you are going through this

[Elieza]

Sorry you are going through this.

Can she stay at home alone under that section? If they say no then as a tactic I’d tell them I’m moving out tomorrow temporarily to stay with friends in order to be with my children who are there and she will be alone and they will HAVE to therefore make provision?

Or

Find out what the actual problem is with the covid test. Is she refusing as a tactic or because she is scared? You could do one at home for her if she’s scared? Or if she’s ill has she been at home for ten days isolating anyway, in which case once that’s up she can be presumed clear?

I know she’s ill but when she made the decision to stop her meds she was presumably stable. She made a conscious choice then, even though she’s not fully understanding the consequences now or the impact on the children. I don’t know if I could have her in my/their lives after this scary time. Sorry and I hope you get it sorted soon.

[NynaeveSedai]

If you REALLY can't persuade her to leave then you have to leave. Social care will not be successful in obtaining court orders to put them in care if the only obstacle to you caring for them is that you can't get her out and you have nowhere else to go. They should not be approaching it in this punitive way assuming everything you have said is true. At the end of the day you can sign consent for the children to go into care temporarily (though they may be wary of doing this without court oversight as your partner can't consent currently as she doesn't have capacity)
Does she have any family or friends you can enlist to come and talk to her with you? As she can't be forced to leave, persuasion is your best bet.

[NynaeveSedai]

I'm sorry I forgot to finish my thought about you leaving. I have supported parents to leave their home and be placed in emergency accommodation before when there are strong child welfare reasons why they can't stay at home. Housing do not like doing it and they will often resist especially when it's not a clear DV situation for which there are existing guidelines but if you get a social worker to help advocate for you that may be the best course of action.

[OverTheRubicon]

The DV /DA piece stood out to me. If they think that you are in denial about abuse, they will not be pushing to get the kids back with you. If this is the issue, you should also be able to access support faster both through social services and your MP as a victim of domestic violence trapped in a home and unable to get access to their children, than as a carer who wants access to limited hospital space.

My ex had serious mental health issues before that resulted in abusive behaviour. I was blind - not least because of the narrative on this site among many others, that DV is always committed by 'abusers' who are doing it for mostly malign reasons. This may often be the case, but unfortunately it can also be because someone is so unwell that they are not able to judge situations properly and/or act in the way that they would when healthy. Also unfortunately, from the perspective of the kids it doesn't really matter that the punched walls, or faces, or emotional manipulation are the result of illness - they are still victims of domestic abuse with all the lifelong risks that entails.

If this is the case, you can contact Women's Aid or another DV group (even if you're not a woman, you're a victim here, even if your wife is also), who can also help you with a path forwards.

[LemonSwan]

If shes on a section 2 they have a duty of care.

Next time the crisis team come through the door (ie. today). Dont ask for advise. Tell them in no uncertain terms that you are no longer willing to care for her (as you have to prioritise your children) and that you are leaving the house.

Leave the house while they are there.

[onedayiwillflyaway1]

How can someone be on a section and not be in hospital? Is this how it is now if so this is really not good at all.

[NynaeveSedai]

@onedayiwillflyaway1

How can someone be on a section and not be in hospital? Is this how it is now if so this is really not good at all.

Yes it happens. I didn't believe it either but a friend works for a crisis team and says it happens more than you think

[TolkiensFallow]

She’s not on section if a hospital hasn’t accepted the papers. She is “liable to be detained” which means that AMHP has assessed her and decided to make an application but can’t because there is no hospital which will accept her. They still can once the bed is identified AND she has been accepted.

So currently she is receiving crisis team home treatment.

As they have found a bed now, I think you actually need to give her the ultimatum of “do a pcr or get out” I know this sounds exceptionally harsh but if you want to prioritise the children then it’s your only option.

[EllieLucy]

@Trappedx

We have a plo coming up next week, social worker says if no change then going to court proceedings , I’ve told them I’ll move with my kids as they come first I’ll move temporarily with some family

Then leave her in the house on her own under a section

Do it. Accept your relative's offer. Don't wait for it to go to court. Find yourself somewhere else to live. Look at your finances, juggle the money and find a way to do it, even if you have to rent somewhere, a house share even, look at rooms to rent, anything. It won't look good on you if you only prioritize the DC when they're about to be took off you.

[DriftingBlue]

You said a relative could house you and the kids. Do that today. I would not have let the kids be taken into care at all. The moment there was an issue, it was time to pack them up and leave.

Your responsibility to their mother is to care for your shared children during her crisis.

[EllieLucy]

SS have a legal duty to house the DC. Sofa surfing equals homeless. Usually they rehouse a parent with DC when everyone is homeless. But it's complicated because you've not prioritized them and you've got a home, you've stayed with DP, so it's only the DC that's homeless and SS won't care much about reuniting you because you've effectively abandoned them. Not blaming you. It's a confusing situation for you, but you made a wrong choice and need to change it now.

[colouringindoors]

OP I have been in a similar situation with a partner who was sectioned, but no beds. Eventually the police did remove him to a place of safety (it was under a regulation I can't remember which) partly because he was starting ro destroy our belongings. Please don't underestimate the impact of this situation on you and your children. Me and my ds have ptsd as a result of my ex's severe mental illness. If your partner has met the threshold for sectioning they are severely ill and it is not acceptable that they're left with you.

You've a couple of options.
You can contact the police and say your partner has threatened you. If you say explicitly that you fear for your safety they should act and remove your partner from the home. There are places apart from police cells that can be used for people in this situation.

You take your partner to a and e. Book them in, explain the Section. And then leave.

I realise both of these sound brutal. But you must prioritise you and your children's wellbeing. While you are in the home with your partner, services don't Have to take over.

Take good care

[Platax]

You REALLY need to get advice from MIND. Have you contacted them?

[nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut]

Is the house yours, hers or joint? If its yours you simply tell them your relationship is over, she is no longer living with you and you will not take responsibility for her. Then remove her gently but firmly from the house.

If hers. Move out with kids. Do not tell her where you are living. Tell her care providers you will no longer be caring for her.

If joint. Move out with kids. Tell them you are no longer responsible for her. Put your children first or you will lose them.

[Platax]

If your wife would qualify for legal aid, it could be worth exploring whether action can be taken in her name to find her suitable accommodation, or maybe something like a Best Interests application to sort everything out.

[TolkiensFallow]

You’ve had some slightly ropey advice on this thread OP. I’m sure people are well meaning but it’s not all accurate.

Children’s Service DO have a duty to ensure your children are accommodated but NOT you, because you have somewhere to live. So don’t make yourself intentionally homeless.

Your partner has been offered a bed but is refusing the pcr being required by the (probably private) hospital. A trust bed wouldn’t require this but would either test on admission or isolate your partner in the interests of infection control.

I would ring the AMHP office at least twice a day and write to the most senior trust manager about the bed situation. Copying your MP into the email.