i cant carry on

[elementofsurprise]

theres no where i can turn

[elementofsurprise]

Also thank you LEM

The people who outright dislike me can fuck off. Just sometimes it hurts to know I'm so disliked and unwanted. And it seems so horribly unfair because they think I'm a bad person but I'd never have treated me like this!

[elementofsurprise]

Thanks Rino.
It's ok, I understand the borderline thing. Oh yes, and once I can think about it without being furious or despairing I've a book to write.

However... within that - I guess I want to know why me? I've known/seen people present as I do/did and get labelled 'depression' or other things and offered support. What the hell made them look at me and say "borderline"? I didn't present repeatedly to A&E with severe self-harm - I went to the GP asking for help. I was very clear about how/when my problems started and the triggers, and asked for counselling to deal with it all.

Aside from that, it's interaction with people/friends that I'm struggling with. For a start, some people think any sign of me being mentally not ok is me being a bad person. I'm viewed as attention seeking, bad, and if anyone understands, they in turn are viewed as having been manipulated by me! Normal people, not professionals!

There is also a complex element that is so hard to explain, I have rambled it badly! Put it this way - imagine a scenario with a typical caricatured submissive 1950's housewife, and her husband. He might be a 'nice husband' evidenced by not beating her, being a 'good dad' and taking his children to the park every Saturday, buying her bunches of flowers, complimenting the dinner she has cooked, 'letting her' have a sit down and making her a cuppa when she is heavily pregnant etc... but the whole thing is utterly underscored by inequality! When it comes to the crunch she has to say "Yes dear" and submit to his will, agree with him etc. He is 'kind' to her but in a sort of... patronising way. It could be incredibly subtle - he could appear to be a radical feminist compared to their male friends, but still underneath it all there is an expectation that she will submit, and if she doesn't she will be subtly shamed (or something) until she steps back in line.
...I feel like this. With most people. It's very subtle, much more so than the housewife example. But I feel like I am expected to accept and conform to others' version of reality. I am accepted but only if I play the role I have been allocated. People might be kind but ultimately in a way where they expect me to conform to their views of me, the situation, and reality as a whole.

[Rinoachicken]

Am I right in thinking you have said on another thread that you have been diagnosed borderline?

Let me know if this is correct and I'll expand further on why it's significant and why MH attitudes are the way they are towards this disorder. (I'm borderline myself)

[TheoriginalLEM]

I do wonder if it is your perception of people disliking you, rather than them actually disliking you. Now don't get me wrong, this world is peppered with arseholes who do treat other people badly and this may well have been what has happened to you, to the degree that it has skewed how you perceive what is happening within an interaction.

Then there will be the people who love you but who are exasperated because you don't just "pull yourself together". They don't have a mental illness so they have NO IDEA what it is like and can't understand it because if they have an upset or a bad day (everyone does) they will be fine once the problem is sorted or they have licked their wounds for a while. That isn't the way for people who are suffering from depression and i know that a small knock back can set me back for months! My partner falls into this category - it really does drag him down, it has nearly caused us to split but we have battled through and he really is a lovely, kind person but my illness has often pushed him to his limits and he isn't always kind to me because he just can never really understand why one day i'll wake up and everything is black, there isn't a reason, it just is.

So people who are genuinely shit to you - fuck em, they aren't worth the shit off your shoe - tell them as much.

those who are frustrated and don't understand you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. But they still have no right to expect you to be happy or fit into their ideal. You are you and you are not well just now.

You are a good person

[elementofsurprise]

Thing is, I'm basically struggling cos of my past and experiences.

It's just that all that is made harder to deal with because it seems to cause this big split between my reality and everyone else's - people wont be supportive, wont understand, think I'm a bad person for not being ok... I need some support but cant have any. And it fucking hurts so much to know how many people dislike me and think badly of me, and I dont know why.

[elementofsurprise]

Sorry that post took ages.

[elementofsurprise]

So people will do stuff that's hurtful, or treat me worse than others, or act in a way that is completely disregarding my feelings in a way they'd hate if I did it to them.

I am supposed to go along with this. If I don't, it's treated like me making the problem, and attempts to talk it through are resisted/sabotaged.
Unless I apologise, and accept their view of reality and me, the relationship is lost.

In addition any sign of pain, struggling, needing support or to talk etc is deemed to be attention seeking/overreacting/generally treated (subtly if not overtly) as if I'm ... misbehaving.

Considering my viewpoint/take on reality seems to be very much in the minority... often only me... then I have to look at the possibility that the hordes in agreement on the other side are right. Maybe they are right, and it is my mind befuddled by mental illness that confuses me?

However, their reality doesn't seem to add up. Jammed with hypocrisy, double standards and inconsistencies - but weirdly all in agreement that I'm the one doing something wrong. But I know they are wrong! Because for example I would treat someone struggling like me a lot nicer than they do - so I can't be a bad person. And they will claim I have bad motives for something when I know I don't!

And, amongst all this, is just plain old basic fucking horrible trauma and memories I'm trying to deal with. A lot of the past events have the same thread running through them - the fact that others in my sitution would have been helped, but I wasn't, the way everyone seemed to have it in for me, when I needed somene on my side, the way I was always disbelieved and rejected.

And someties I just need to feel like someones on my side and understands - I'm tired of feeling crap alone, knowing I will be treated like a naughty child if I try to get some support. I have actually asked various MH professionals why they seem angry with me and not kind when I am upset, why they expect me to feel good about myself when they appear to have a such a low view of me - and they will do anything to avoid those questions! And they call me manipulative! No - I just want to understand and call them out when I think they are being unfair or making the problem worse.

[gamerchick]

Your pain and distress is glaringly obvious however, I admit I'm struggling to picture what you mean from your posts and I want to.

Could you maybe give some examples of how people are treating you?

[elementofsurprise]

But this is almost everyone... If I try to explain I get called manipulative or attention seeking or similar. I'm not only rejected but belittled, discredited etc.

So I am simultaneously trying to feel worthwhile whilst being bombarded with messages that I am not. I'm not even allowed to have my own perceived reality, or if I am wrong to have someone else explain it to me kindly.

Even trying to explain all this to an old friend (ie. who doesn't live locally so isn't 'involved' in any way) was impossible, because he was actually demonstrating the very thing I a talkig about - an absolute refusal to take in what I was saying and many attempts to sabotage me doing so. Even though he was simultaneusly insisting I was a worthwhile person and appearing happy to talk.

[elementofsurprise]

And if I try to... to resist, to be on an equal footing, to stick to my guns, stand up for myself, whatever... then I am rejected.

[elementofsurprise]

I will try to explain what I mean.

People force me to either accept their view of me and reality, or won't engage with me.

If I am a good little person, 'know my place', and feel shame for needing anything, disagreeing in anyway, being visibly upset, or in any way displeasing them... then they will 'accept' me. Otherwise I will be left out, ignored, spoken badly of etc.

To this end, I have actually observed people treating me in a way they wouldn't treat others, and wouldn't like themselves.

It sounds like I am talking about obviously abusive relationships, but it is more subtle than that. It's like when a specialist doctor is talking to a patient - the doctor is the one with authority, the patient will sort of defer to the dr's superior knowledge. They will both interact in a certain way - an unequal way - based on that understanding.

In the same way, I feel like the realtionship between me and others is: I am a nasty piece of work, subhuman, or at least, I am thick and troubled and they know best so will graciously deign to be passably decent to me when they feel like it. I am supposed to defer to their superiority, and feel grateful they are bothering with me at all.

[elementofsurprise]

And people who I know and trust will then hurt me, start treating me badly etc. I don't know how many years you need to be friends with someone before you can be sure they wont turn against you...

[elementofsurprise]

Its all very well saying dont try to please people, but it's expected almost all the time in the smallest of interactions. I cut out the people who treat me badly and I'm left with almost no-one at all. Certainly no-one who I can talk this through with.

[elementofsurprise]

People get warned off being friens with me by others.

[elementofsurprise]

I am widely dislike, if not hated. My reputation precedes me. People decide Im actually ok but then change their minds again. I am actualy disliked.

[TheoriginalLEM]

I was bullied too :( its fucking horrible and i daresay part of my issue but im fucked if i am going to let them win anymore.

[TheoriginalLEM]

Have you posted here before under a different name? Its just i recognise your writing style. Have you ever posted in "the village?" support threads?

I accept that you probably are misunderstood, most intelligent yet depressed people are - but hated? i can't believe that. You are clearly very articulate as whilst you write alot its easy to read.

Its ok to be angry, but it is not ok to turn that anger against yourself. Stop trying to please otherss, they aren't worth the effort. Look after yourself, those who are worthwhile will be there for you.

You do have to understand yourself (and i struggle with this myself) that it is so very difficult for people to understand the complexities of mental health, the psychs don't really have a handle on it, it is a relatively young science that relys very much on a suck it and see methodology in terms of medication and treatment.

With regards to the CBT, is it the therapy or the therapist that isn't working - i have had many counsellors (often they are trainees and or volunteers). It wasn't until i was given someone senior that i got anywhere - he didn't give me an easy time by any means but its what i needed.

It is patronising for people to be all "there there, you have a good cry it'l be ok" because its bullshit. Sometimess you do need someone to help you be objective and look at the facts.

Your posts are very much based on raw emotion and i suspect you are in quite a state just now and i wish i could help more but you need to get through today. Can you go for a walk or something? anything that will distract you from the malestrom of thoughts you are having just now.

you don't want to die, you just want to get better.

[TheoriginalLEM]

I understand - i suffer from anxiety and depression and whilst im doing ok now (far from brilliant but coping) i know how the stigma can really hurt. I swear if one more person told me to pull myself together i'd be in prison!!

The problem isn't other people disliking you - the problem is you disliking you! You need to learn to like yourself, fuck everyone else. Have you ever noticed that its the people who seem the most selfish that have people buzzing around them like flies round shit?

It doesn't matter one tiny fuck what other people want or expect from you. Of course people who care about you WANT you to be happy but they have absolutely no right to expect it. This battle is yours and yours alone and you have to do it for you.

Are you in physical or mental pain?

Who are your RL people? friends? family? Partner?

I have to go out shortly but do please reply if it helps, i'll be back later and happy to listen and offer my support.

[elementofsurprise]

Ok.
I am in pain, struggling to cope with memeories and expereinces. I feel angry and hurt and frightened and alone.
I cant talk to anybody in real life because they dont understand and/or don't believe me and/or have no frame of reference for what I went through/am going through.

Ever heard people say the stigma of MH issues is worse than the issues themselves? I personify that statement! My original issue stem from feeling very hurt, being bullied, not allowed to express myself or being considered overly sensitive.
When bottling things up stopped working and pleasing others was damaging me, I tried to get help and was bsically treated as above - viewed as an attention seeking waste of space who should be coping.

I am aware how dire the system is. I understand many things now.

But what I dont understand and what hurts so much is, why do people dislike me? All my life my pain has been dismissed, people who would never dream of being nasty to someone struggling will be nasty to me, people view me in the worst possible light, twisting the facts and adding lies to justify it.

Yet they expect me to buck up and be happy.

People expect me to accept their assessment of me and reality, and will not engage with me unless I do. This is all people in life thus far. I am widely hated and misunderstood. I want to die. Im so sorry.

[TheoriginalLEM]

Phew - thats a lot of feelings and expectations in there my lovely.

Can ou try and be a little bit more specific and concise - focus on what problems you are facing and share them with us. It will be much easier for someone to offer advice and support and also help you to calm down

[elementofsurprise]

People expect me to feel good about myself and can get very cross and call me nasty things (eg attention seeking, need to get over it etc) when I dont manage to feel good - like im being punished for feeling sad and not coping. But the same people dont support me when I need help, or even accept my reality. They might be kind in a sort of patronising, completely not understanding way... but I feel like I've lost my personhood somehow.

And yet I am supposed to feel good about myself... im coming up against a wall of not being able to work this out... because i need to speak to people, i need people to understand, but no-one will -they seem to want to be cross and dismiss me very quickly.

[elementofsurprise]

What I mean is, in order to interact with anyone, they expect certain things. I'm expected to hide my distress, to not ask for help, to serve others needs but not ask for help with my own etc.... and to accept their reality, how they choose to treat me etc. If I speak out I am wrong/attention seeking/manipulative/nasty in their view. This is in general with everyone - from professionals to 'friends'. I cant talk about this to anyone in real life because they just get cross. I'm not talking about obvious abuse either, just a sort of general feeling that I have to 'please' them in some sense- conform maybe? - otherwise i'm labelled a bad person.
It has been the sam all my life - i ws bullied and unhappy as a child, and yet was treated as if I was the wrong one, whereas I ws atually very loving bu no-one wanted me.

[elementofsurprise]

I must be a bad person cos people want to treat me as inferior and be cross with me when i need help - they say attention seeking. But it is so much pan, when i try to udnerstand the things that have happened to me... then i can see i have been treated badly. yet everyday there is no support and nowhere to turn and peopl hating me...

how can I simultaneously believe im worth something, whilst being expected to accpet others horrible untrue opinions of me?