5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

[BigChocFrenzy]

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

• Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
• Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
• You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

• The best upper body exercise
• Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
• Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
• Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
• Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
• Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
• To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

• The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
• Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes

• Bring your arms forward
• Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
• Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
• Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

• Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
• Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

1. with dumbell
2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

Seated version of benchpress is overhead press, of course.

Oh, bad luck B&W. Apparently nowadays 'watchful waiting' is often recommended if it's the first occurrance and depending on age (I know more about this subject at the moment than I want to!). I'm sure that the fact you're starting off fit and lean will stand you in good stead. Maybe you can get an appt with a physio?

Does anyone have any thoughts about footwear for lifting weights? I'm just wearing my cardio trainers at the mo but I've read a flatter sole is better.

For beginners on lighter weights, it really doesn't matter.

For heavier lifting, thinner shoes with incompressible soles are generally best.
They provide more traction and are more stable:
Running shoes have gel or air, which can reduce your power : you lose some compressing the sole, whereas you want 100% to go towards lifting the weight.
I prefer shoes with a heel personally, especially for squats. So, not flats.

BigChoc I saw the sports specialist doctor recently and for my GI problems she said strictly low residue 3 days before a race, ham and pasta or ham and rice only. I was thinking that maybe the low residue diet might be useful for me to follow all the time, but it means very little fruit and veg...not sure I can do without vinagrette on my salad either because I eat lettuce with every meal except breakfast!

That sounds ok for the few days before a race, but I suggest you eat veg when you are not in race prep - I think you need the antioxidants for your immune system, especially doing so much cardio.
Veg usually has more antioxidants and lower GI than fruit.

Maybe leave out fruit for a while, especially citrus, because that can irritate the stomach for some people and your ordinary training is pretty tough on your system.
I'd also suggest cutting right down on caffeine and added sugar, always keeping to safe alcohol limits, early to bed etc longterm.

Thanks BigChoc sound advice. I think I can cut out fruit more easily than veg. Have cut out almonds completely...I love them but I don't think they were helping my GI problem. And eating 1kg a week wasn't light on calories either! Added sugar isn't a problem, I cook everything from scratch and don't eat anything ready prepared. Or take sugar (except for honey in Greek yougurt). Thanks, that sounds a lot more do-able;-)

This Runners World article is interesting. It is about debunking the myth that for every 3500 calories less you eat you lose a pound, which dates back to 1958. It isn't as simple as that, as you burn fewer calories the more weight you lose. I tried the new calculator and it seems realistic.

Thanks for the shoe advice Big.

Another query......I struggle with getting the timing right for eating dinner before my cardio class. Felt really sick the other day but it's too late to eat when I get home. Wondered if I should just have a protein shake beforehand instead. Any thoughts?

Interesting article.

Very interesting article. Thanks, Anglaise
Yes, people aren't computers. The response probably varies according to personal history, as well as current conditions and metabolism.

Adaptive thermogenesis may be behind this:
Even with full muscle retention, losing a significant amount of weight gives you a lower TDEE than someone who is naturally that weight without dieting.

This is due to complicated metabolic changes in response to weight loss and the body's attempt to avoid it.

The effects with yo-yo dieting of a significant amount - maybe 15lb+ ? - could be significant if cumulative.

Varady said on FB that
someone who loses 50lb will have a TDEE 15% lower than someone naturally that weight
This difference may take years to disappear gradually, especially for someone who has dieted many times.

IIRC, Michelle Harvey in her book casually mentions that many women on daily calorie restricted diets need a daily deficit of about 830 cals to lose 1lb weight per week ! That's VLC for a short sedentary middle-aged woman with maybe 1400 TDEE.
Maybe also adaptive thermogenesis - these women have lost weight recently or many times in the past.

Bus I have either a small meal 2-3 hrs before evening training, or a protein shake 1 hr before. Depends on my lunch size and timing, whether FD or NFD.
I train intensively, so even on an FD I found I do need something to perform properly. People vary - do whatever works for you.

10 mins before training, I usually have a double espresso or other high-caffeine non-fizz. This helps release body fat for fuel. The usual release rate is often too slow for intense exercise and your glycogen can ran out on an FD evening.

I often have a protein shake after training, because too late for a meal.
Or a zero-cal BCAA (Branch Chain Amino Acid) drink, e.g. Xtend (add water to powder)

Thanks Big.

Am vaguely thinking about aiming towards being able to do a pull up as my next fitness goal. Any experts on here?? Have read you can build up to it by doing reverse ones first and lowering yourself down. I have zero ability at the moment!

Training Tip: Think of pullups as pulling the bar down to you, rather than you pulling up your body.

You would find chinups (palms towards you, shoulder width) easier to start with than pullups (palms away, wider arms)

Building up the Necessary Muscles:
. Yes, negative pullups help
. So do inverted rows - see video in pullup section of OP.
. Lateral pulldowns too
. If your gym has a Smith machine, try pullups with the bar at head height and your feet rest on the floor like this
. Most gyms have an assisted pullup / chinup / tricep dip combined machine, where you have a counterweight. This enable you to build up your muscles.
. This program shows how to build up to pullups. I disagree only with his dislike for assisted pullup machines - which I consider safer than his alternatives.
. For your next PT series, tell him this is one of your main aims. He should be able to really accelerate your progress.

Hi there, I've been loitering on the main 5:2 thread for a while, now found this which is great! I have been doing 5:2 for about 4 weeks now and really happy with the results and how flexible it is. I just have a question about fitting in running.

I try to run about 3 times a week, not far, between 5-7k, but am struggling with energy. Haven't yet tried running on a FD, convinced I'd be too weak, then the day after a FD I am tending to get a quite upset stomach so avoid running for obvious reasons! Then with other commitments I am struggling to fit it in.

I am building up to a 10 mile trail race in October so need to up my mileage, but struggling to work out when best to run. My lack of carbs on a FD puts me off trying to run. I live in a rural hilly area is the running is quite tough.

Are there any runners out there who can tell me what they do? If you run on a FD do you have any tips what's best to eat (vegetarian please!)

Thanks very much!

Hi Turnip, welcome aboard!

Our resident guru, BigChoc, is out on her weekly binge tonight, I believe. But rest assured she'll be along shortly.

In the meantime, have a good read through the OP of this thread, there's a wealth of info in there and it takes a while to digest it all! And it's possible BC's answered your query in the body of the thread, so have a good look around.

Most of us on here do exercise in the fasted state for a variety of reasons.

I'm not much of a runner but if I do it would be a slow 5 k and always fasted - even before I did 5:2 I only ever did it first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.

Hi Errol

Hope your DH is progressing well.

I was wondering today if the HIIT I'm doing is of any use to him until he recovers fully.

This is swimming using the breaststroke just with my arms, with my knees drawn up in the sitting position. From 6 sets of 20 secs thrashing about and 20 secs recovery, I've increased it to 8 sets of 25 secs work with 15 secs recovery. By the end of that, I know I've had a workout!

It looks a bit ungainly, but I feel I'm keeping my fitness level up whilst I wait for the op.

I'm also using a resistance band whilst sitting down - I've got six exercises, 20 reps x 4 sets; and I do seated kettlebell exercises - once again 6 x 20 x 4. I alternate these every other day, with a day off on Sunday.

Hope your DH is proving to be a good patient, and is not too demanding!

Welcome, Turnip
Sounds like a good start on 5:2, but I've some advice, including its combination with running.

Training
Individuals vary, but most folk doing fasted running sessions of up to 90 mins should be fine.
In fact many studies, e.g. LeanGains indicate fasted training improves performance over the weeks. It increases V02 max and lean mass, reduces body fat.

Many people train on FDs, including me, but I suggest you leave that for later.
Ideally, on your 3 NFDs, train fasted before breakfast, just with water beforehand.
Have a banana right after, then have a good breakfast at home with protein & carbs, not much fat, e.g. veggy omelette with wholegrain toast, or hummus salad & pita.

If you have to train evenings, then eat nothing after lunch, have your banana after training and either a shake or a light salad at home.

For your 10k, I suggest building up to max 1 hr training and incorporating a few sprint intervals (20 secs sprint, 20 jog) after your warmup - they improve fitness, speeed and can also help fat release for fuel.

Upset Tum
First, we need to solve your problem of upsets after FDs, though. Some folk have found this the first couple weeks, but 4 weeks is a bit long.

3 main causes to tackle:

1) The day before an FD
. Set yourself up properly, so you start the FD under the best conditions. Get a good night's sleep.
. After 3pm, no alcohol, fruit juice, junk, or sweet treats, just healthy food. Supper should be normal size, not a binge.
. Include plenty of protein, also complex carbs like quinoa, oats, brown rice. NOT sugary cereals.

2) FD content
. Go low GI, even low carb.
. Obviously no alcohol, but also cut out fruit or juice, which can upset an empty tum.
. Caffeine is v useful for some folk, but others can also find it irritates the stomach. Even tea. So cut those out and drink herbal tea or Marmite on FDs
. Cut added sugar, sugary treats including breakfast cereal
. Cut out any white carbs except potatoes. Starch portions should otherwise be complex and small.
. Mid-morning and mid-afternoon, have a teasp of Marmite (10 cals each) from the jar, to replenish lost minerals - deficiency may be part of the reason for nausea

3) Breaking the fast
. For fasted morning training, see above
. On other NFD mornings, again avoid irritants like caffeine, sugary cereals, juice. Drink plenty of water.
. Have a light healthy meal with lean protein, veg, complex carbs, minimal fat.
. Have a normal size healthy meal about 4 hrs later.

Hi Turnip
I can't improve on BigChoc's excellent advice (as always) but as a runner I just wanted to say good luck for your training. I've always run on fast days without a problem, it was more difficult the day after. Once you are more used to fasting it will become easier to train, I promise you. I can run 2 hours at least on an empty stomach, in fact I prefer it because I suffer from GU problems. I'm currently trying a non residue (i.e. no fibre) diet and will see how I get on in my 26km trail race this afternoon

Wow, thank you BigChocFrenzy for such a detailed response, and really helpful practical advice!

The tips for the upset stomach are really helpful. I am starting to see a possible link between bread and a dodgy tummy on NFD so that's easy enough to cut out, but the other tips are really useful.

I will definitely work towards running on a FD, it would work for me in so many ways with my schedule.

And thank you too Anglaise1 for the reassurance and inspiration! I hope your race goes well. I loved half marathon distance and marathons before having my DS, now slowly trying to build back up! Glad to hear it works well with 5:2!

How did your marathon go, Anglaise ? I hope you enjoyed iit all and that your tum behaved.
Now enjoy a couple of weeks recovery.

Turnip If you've done half and full marathons in the past, you obviously had a high level of fitness pre-DC.
That's excellent: you'll have muscle memory and the neurological adaption should also return fairly quickly. So, you should be able to regain your previous fitness quite quickly, as you move towards pre-DC weight with 5:2.

During this weight loss period, I suggest keeping to races that you can complete in under 90 mins - Anglaise is maintaining and no longer does FDs as that would interfere with her long training runs and long races.

Also, I've posted earlier that I recommend most folk don't exceed 60 mins, because studies have shown that hard 90 min runs slightly damage the immune system for up to 3 days; half / full marathons need 2 weeks recovery, for the heart muscles and immune system.

B&W, thanks for your kind thoughts. DH is doing pretty well - recovering better than we'd anticipated. We had a nice 5 mile walk today, not totally flat , and he's started doing a bit on our rower and bike with low load and intends to gradually ramp that up. No swimming just yet as I think he is still only supposed to shower not bath for a few more days though the little laparoscope wounds look healed, but I'll suggest it later next week. He doesn't do HIIT though, as not sure it would be wise as he has high bp and bouts of atrial fibrillation. He reckons he'll be up to some longer hillier walks soon - DD is going to take us on a 13 km she did last year for a leg of her DofE.

BigChoc it wasn't actually marathon although it felt like it, 500m ascent and a temperature of 30°C, just 26kms of trail. Took me just under 3 hours which is longer than I'd hoped, but I was still the 1st woman to finish (and the oldest!). Received a nice cheque for 50€to spend in the Endurance Shop.
The best thing is that I didn't have GI problems at all, either during or after. Not sure if that is because of the diet or because my average speed was a lot lower because we had to walk up a lot of the steep slopes. But it was very encouraging.
I promise to rest a little now
Turnip I don't often do full fast days now, but sometimes 16:8. But I was running all the time I lost 6kgs with fasting, just not marathon training, and I didn't suffer at all. Good luck!

That's brilliant, Anglaise First and oldest woman is a double victory.
The diet may have helped your tum, but I suspect it may be mainly because some of the race was lower intensity, so less stress on your body.
Also, lower overall distance.

Good to hear your DH is continuing to recover well, Errol
With his bp, cv, hernia history I agree HIIT is not for him - just build up to low / medium intensity cardio and also later lift some sensible weights / bodyweight exercises.
Blokes find it much easier building muscle and losing fat, so that sort of program, with sensible eating, should keep him in good nick longterm.