5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

[BigChocFrenzy]

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

• Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
• Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
• You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

• The best upper body exercise
• Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
• Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
• Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
• Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
• Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
• To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

• The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
• Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes

• Bring your arms forward
• Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
• Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
• Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

• Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
• Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

1. with dumbell
2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

Forgot to say that I maintain with 5:2 - Monday and Tuesday as that also gives me my two alcohol free consecutive days a week as recommended by someone somewhere for your liver (booze and cheese are probably my weakness - I don't have a sweet tooth). Weds is lowish calorie - I add in some richer protein to my lunchtime salad, eat a 5:2 type dinner with a little extra chilli sauce and then have a cider after dancing. I exercise Mon, Wed and Thu or Fri - first thing in the morning. I dance on Weds evenings. I walk every day except Friday (which i was trying to turn into a total rest day, hence moving its workout to Thu).

Your no snacking policy really resonates for me as I think I pile on more calories than I know with snacks. I'm training to ban snacks totally (but struggling a bit).

I won't workout at the weekend - we often go away and I like the mental space of time off everything difficult :-)

Welcome, flesh

Well done on your brilliant SV and even more so on maintaining; you have developed the WOE that works for you longterm.


I remind everyone to keep their FDs free from alcohol and also from sugary / carby junk food.
With your b2b FDs, that gives consecutive dry days, but it's also fine if you have to split your FDs:
what matters is having at least 2 dry days per week, as doctors recommend.

Also, on NFDs stay within the daily nhs guidelines and be sensible about sugary treats.
If treats are tough to moderate, I recommend you "2:5" them, i.e. only have them 2 days per week.

Your BMI is sufficiently low to concentrate now on body composition, not scales:

1. Visceral fat (fat around internal organs) The best indicator being waist measurement.

You've probably reached the first target of waist / height less than 0.5
The optimised target is 0.38 - 0.45 but please note that genuinely this is a range within which your individual optimum lies. So, don't think 0.38 is ideal - your sustainable optimum for health & shape might be 0.44 or 0.45.

If you think you have a bit more fat than you wish around your waist, then cut down on alcohol and sugary "treats", because both of these tend to store fat specifically around the midsection.

If you want alcohol or sugar, do have these as part of a meal, to blunt the impact and reduce the portion size.
Also because no snacking is important to avoid being in an insulin-dominant state on NFDs instead of the fasting-dominant state, see attached pics from Dr Jason Fung's excellent book on IF for health.

2. Muscle The best way I can think of to combat loose skin around your upper arms is to add muscle there, to fit your skin

For this, I would suggest adding heavy lifting / bodyweight resistance for the shoulders and biceps.
However, not likeTabata / HIIT, but imstead more slowly, doing reps and sets.
Something like this program:

• 3 sets of slow pressups, 10-15 reps per set, rest between sets
• 2 sets tricep pressups, see pic. build up to 10 reps per set
• 2 sets of tricep dips on a step, legs straight, build up to 25 reps per set
• 3 sets of bicep curls, start at 5-6 kg dumbbells
• 1 sets of reverse bicep curls, 10 reps
• 2 sets of front raises, 10 reps
• 2 sets of side raises, 10 reps

To make time for this, cut out your weekly dance.
I know you enjoy the class, but it sounds like it could keep injuring you, worst case being it aggravates your spinal cyst.

oops, I just spotted you don't have a sweet tooth, so ignore the comments about sugar and take seriously those about alcohol

Thanks very much BigChoc - totally agree about the arm exercise, and thanks for that exercise plan.

I do totally agree about the snacking too, and I'm getting there - so much better than it used to be. I already only drink just before and with a meal too. Will measure my waist - I think it's about 27 inches.

Giving up the dance is complex - we moved to a village in the country 3 years ago, it's taking a while to meet people, I work from home alone. I do like the people at the dancing (it's Morris) and it offers the potential for lovely summer days out too with friends.

I think I'll continue to take it carefully - being much lighter helps, as do wearing my cushioned running shoes, and resting - just for the good it does me mentally. But I do understand your warning, and at the first sign of nerve issues I will stop.

I already only drink just before and with a meal too. - apart from the drink after dancing, of course. Could change that to soda water easily.

Me again! Is the Jason Fung book "The Obesity Code"? Or "The Complete Guide to Fasting" written with someone else?

The pics are from his Obesity Code - I have the Kindle and there is some useful science and clinical experience.
He recommends IF to increase the weight "set point" to avoid regain, which fits our experience on the 5:2 threads: those who best maintain longterm, IF longterm. Others keep regaining & returning.

His low carb recommendations are imo only really necessary for the insulin-resistant / preT2/T2, but they are probably ⅓ of the population.
From your waist and lack of sweet tooth, you sound v low risk so I don't think you need low carb

I don't low carb, but the 2 FDs are inherently low carb and I usually have another day too without starchy carbs.

btw, instead of "slow" pressups, I should have said "normal pace", i.e. not under time pressure as you woukd be in Tabata or circuits.

Thanks again. Will buy that book. I really feel as though I've found the key to maintenance this time - a tough couple of fast days and another where I'm probably around 1000, and the rest of the time it's much more easy to exist in the world than if I were strictly low carb or counting calories every day.

Sounds an excellent maintenance WOL:
a substantial FD and mini-FD deficit, which you eat back to freely enjoy the remaining 4 NFDs (unless you go mad)

I'd add my usual recommendations:

• Weigh regularly, at least weekly. Daily if you wish.
• If you put on 4 lb which stays a week, resume strict NFDs within TDEE until you have lost it
• If you have a holiday, that's ok, but put in your calendar that you will resume your WOE the day after you return

Very Longterm:
. TDEE drops with age (unless you boost exercise) and menopause especially adds fat around the middle unless you watch like a hawk during those years.
. Some people continue habits of their late teens when many could get away with eating for England.
. The difference between ages 60 and 30 is significant too - Most folk need to return NFD habits at least every decade.
==> Try to ensure your weight is stable before peri / meno approaches and be aware you may need more NFD structure for your meno WOL and after.

Agree.

I weigh daily using Withings, so I can clearly see the trend line, and by now expect the big drop after my first fast day, and the corresponding big jump too.

I'm well past menopause - 56 now, and it happened at 48, so I hope no big shocks to come there.

If you would like FD & NFD support (wrt eating & drinking), you are very welcome also to join us on the Main 5:2 / IF Thread # 67

I'm aged 60, so also post-meno.
5:2/IF is now my lifetime WOL, for weight management and health

What an interesting thread! The 5:2 is something i have been considering for a while, still not sure it's for me as i am concerned how i will cope with being hugely busy on the fasting days.

My life currently (aswell as full time work):
Run 4 times a week -
Monday is hill or sprint reps
Weds is a mid distance run around 10k
Sat is 5k Park run plus a warm up/cool down so around 8k
Sun tends to be a mid distance or longer run of around 16k depending on what races are coming up

Gym twice a week -
Tues - E-bike intervals & cross trainer
Fri - HIIT workout (directed by DP who is a PT)

Horses -
Ride twice a day 6 days a week, normally Monday is their rest day.

So, with that in mind, i have 2st to lose, but nothing budges. my clothes are not getting looser so it's not like i am toning up...!

How will my fast days work with having enough energy to maintain the above?

Thanks in advance!

You are certainly active, redpony
Most exercisers are able to continue, especially once they adapt to fasting

The FDs remain 500 cals (for women) because eating roughly your TDEE on NFDs accounts for exercise.

I suggest:

• Glug a high caffeine drink, e.g. unsugared double espresso, 10 minutes before fasted training, to help mobilise bodyfat for fuel.
  I clearly notice the assistance when fasted.

• Plan your 2 FDs for your HIIT sprints day (Monday) and your training restday (which seems to be Thursday)

• Avoid fasting on days where you do the steady state medium intensity cardio, i.e. the longer runs, because you will have low glycogen stores on FDs and may really feel the effect.

Fasters usually find it easier to burn bodyfat for fuel on days they do HIIT or weightlifting / resistance training, i.e. short intense burst rather than prolonged steady state

Do post how you get on

That is very helpful - thank you! I think i will give this a go.... I have nothing to lose (excet lb's haha) so will start tomorrow.

Thank you for the advice

If you would like support on the FDs (or NFDs) come join us on the Main 5:2 / IF Thread # 67

Short of time to exercise ?

I recommend Mosely's Fat Blasts, which just take a few minutes on 3-5 days per week, see the OP

Or try Shred for 2-3 non-consecutive days

I did fasted training today - spin class then lifting - and unintentionally (!) achieved a PB:
sets of 10 reps each leg press and calf raises @149 kg (328.5lb)

I have a visual handicap and have to guess a bit, so I accidentally put 149 kg instead of 141 kg on the leg press machine (one of the few machines I use - it protects the back)

I only realised when I decided to check the weight, because it was tough and I only did one set of each.

Oh well, even if unintended, it's a good PB

Had a 6 miler planned (week 3 of B210K which is 5 mins walk, then 3 x 17mins run 1 min walk with 5 min cool down walk) but felt so tired before I set out I nearly didn't go. Half told myself that if I could do it then I'd take a charity place in the Royal Parks Half again. Managed it in 67 minutes (no need to walk the last 5 mins as it was all downhill so I jogged).

Shall I, shan't I?

Well done on managing that run, Granny
Yes, go for the charity run !
The buildup training will really boost fitness

I was quietly content, thinking I'm fit, then I spotted a photo of this lass demonstrating archery tricks at the World Nomad Games in Kyrgyzstan

btw, Any poster do archery ? (the normal way, using your arms !)

Check out the exercise calculators at the end of the OP - several there for runners especially, to check your standard etc

Thanks BCF.

Started HIIT yesterday, well didn't know it was until I googled as I've heard friends talking about it and how they monitor their heart rates with fitbits. I have a Apple Watch and it must of done a update as mine now monitors this.

Day 1 yesterday of C25k and did 2miles. I'm using a treadmill as I find Road running very hard on my knees. Plus I sound like a wounded animal with the noises I make, can't inflict that on the public.

Also did a circuit of toning. Abs, bums and thighs. Looking at possibly getting a power plate vibration machine but need to look into Reviews before splashing out on one.

We as a family want to get out and about more and are looking into the possibility of a event towards the end of the year. DH is a runner and DD wants to go to get a medal.

Funny you mention archery in your last post BCF, I'm trying it out for the first time next week. My DD is only 9 and has joined a club but they are amazing and very competitive and after forking out £££ on her equipment I'm too tight to pay for myself to get the equipment but I've found a relaxed club that go for fun that don't keep score that provide all the equipment for £2.50 a lesson so that will be a fun experience.

Forgot to add. I've done no excersize this year. I'm not back at the beginning again but need to build back up gradually.

Last year I started C25k from nothing. Hadn't ran since school and absolutely hated it and couldn't do it. Kept turning it off half way though until one day I burst out crying and a switch flipped in my head that I could do this and persevered and managed after 4 months upto 45 mins continuous running.

My pace is quite slow but when I'm on the treadmill it feels controlled as I can go at my own pace. I attempted a 4K last year and I got pushed along with the crowd and ended up going at a lot faster pace than I was used too and ended up having to walk a fair bit of the course.

My aim to to complete a 4/5k this year and I would love to do a 10k perhaps next year as that would be my ultimate but I'm happy to take it one step at a time and see where it goes.