5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

[BigChocFrenzy]

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

• Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
• Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
• You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

• The best upper body exercise
• Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
• Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
• Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
• Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
• Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
• To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

• The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
• Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes

• Bring your arms forward
• Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
• Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
• Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

• Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
• Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

1. with dumbell
2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

Brilliant achievement B&W and in an amazing time !
Yes, you have come such a long way in 6 months and amazingly over the last 2 years. You have worked so hard.
Have you told your son ? I bet he can't do anywhere near that !
Yes, do have at least 2 days complete rest, just a gentle walk

As before, imo best not to mention your top target, in case this don't quite work out - a cold or an ache can affect your form and it's awkward shifting the date or restarting another day.
Maybe announce:
"Sponsor this 78-yr-old to find how many pressups he can do in an hour. Warning, I'm aiming for 1000 !"

Inspiring stuff B&W!!

This is LetMe with a snazzy new name change

Can I pick your brains once again BigChoc? I'm loving my deadlifting but the past couple of sessions I've noticed my lower back is a big sore during and afterwards. It's never happened before and hasn't corresponded with me upping the weight. I think my technique must be slightly off. Am wondering where I go from here. Was thinking of decreasing the weight a bit. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

*bit sore

< admires Hat's twirl and new handle >

First treat the injury
. I know you'd rather not, but I recommend a full week's rest from lifting of any sort - you probably have a minor injury from poor technique. The tissues need rest to heal and the back is involved to some extent in every type of lift.
. Keep fit with HIIT cardio. Don't worry, cross-training like that and taking a short break from lifting often helps lifting performance.
. Is your back sore when not exercising, e.g. bending down to do your shoes, or bending to the side ? If so, extend that lifting break until you can move without discomfort

Only then can you resume deadlifts and here are some technique tips:

Avoiding injury with deadlifts

Pic 1) Don't round or arch your back.
. Your back should be in the neutral position

Pic 2) Don’t lean back or hyper-extend your lower back at the top of your lifts.
. Lock your hips & knees while keeping your lower back neutral

Pic 3) Get hips in the correct vertical position
. Setup so the the bar is over your mid-foot and your shoulder-blades are over the bar.
. If your hips are too low, then the bar is too far away from your body. Too high increases lower back stress.

Pic 4) Keep the bar close to your legs. Further away increases lower back stress.
. Drag the bar over your shins, knees and thighs to the top. Don't wear shorts or you'll instinctively keep the bar away.

Pic 5) Lower the bar by moving your hips back first.
. Don’t hyper-extend your lower back or over-arch. Keep it neutral.
. Move your hips back, to keep your knees back, so the bar has space to go down.
. Once it reaches your knees, bend your legs.
. Keep the bar close to you, over your mid-foot, at all times to reduce lower back stress.

This is good technique: Deadlift Video

BigChoc I do body pump at home and rarely use my heavier plates, thinking I could maybe try heavy lifting. What would be the main lifts for a beginner?

Morning all,

Did my Les Mills combat workout last night - on a FD, for the first time. I really enjoyed it and found it somehow easier than last time I did it on a NFD (though I'm lighter than then so could be a reason)

Either way, felt good to get back to it!

MrD Those tremendous walks will have significantly increased your overall fitness and made your whole lower body stronger.
Probably improved your core strength too.

Thanks, folks!

I'll be honest and say it's been a lot easier than I expected. And on reflection, it's quite surprising to me that what was considered a far off, possibly unreachable target has now become - well, ordinary!

OK, I have pushed myself somewhat, but it's still a case of "If you can do 10 press ups today, you can do 11 tomorrow".

We've set the date, 1st July , the room is booked - so now I have to set to and follow this checklist - which is as much for my benefit as anything. (But any suggestions will be gratefully received):
I need to:
Make sure that the two charities liaise with one another - organising the media, etc.
Sign up to JustGiving.com
Get myself a T-shirt (sponsorship available?)
Spread the word far and wide myself.

In the meantime, I shall keep pushing - I did 200 in under 7 minutes on Thursday.

So we've missed the bus, eh? And where did you get that hat?

Cardoon I recommend you begin with the large muscle groups, which have the most effect on body shape and overall strength. They also burn fat in the afterburn.
Watch these vids for technique:

• Squat Push your bum back and keep your back straight, knees behind ties, weight on heels. Go as deep as you can without knee discomfort
• BentOver Row Keep your back straight
• StraightLeg DeadLift Push your bum back and do NOT lower the barbell below your knees (he goes much lower but he's an expert)
• BehindNeckPress (press button "female")

Start with 1-2 times per week:
. Start with say 2 sets of 5 reps for each exercise (heavy weight) and build up to 5 x 5
. Do all sets for one exercise at a time, because you'll have to adjust weights. Also, it makes the muscles work to their limit.
. Allow about 3 mins rest between sets
. Always have at least one day afterwards with NO lifting, pump, yoga, swimming. So have a restdayor walk. Maybe HIIT or a short run if you have the energy.

knees behind toes for squats

B&W

Thank you so much for taking the time to post all that BigChoc. Bit gutted to have hit a blip with the lifting. I love it . But will be sensible about it and may go for a run today instead of the gym.

That's great BC - not sure what weight to begin with but I guess it's just trial and error....lifting to failure whilst maintaining form

Cjoose the weight so you can just manage the 5 reps.
Maybe start at 20 kg ? Trial and error. Also, you'll need to increase the weight in a few weeks

Hello! I've wandered over from the 5:2 thread, at BCF's and B&W's suggestion. Just so impressed by B&W's physique, I thought I'd see how it's done.

I've always done a reasonable amount of exercise, more to keep fit than to lose weight. Lost a lot of weight with 5:2 a couple of years ago but went off the rails and put most of it back on.

I have an exercise bike which I use about three times a week for 20 minutes, and follow something called "You Are Your Own Gym" (YAYOG) - it's a book of bodyweight exercises and there's also an app which takes you through a 10 week programme. I've certainly built up muscle using YAYOG, and I like it because I can do it anywhere, no special equipment needed.

I'm hoping to get some inspiration from this thread to add to that from the "diet" thread. And, of course, if I can contribute I will

Welcome, mtum
Do you cover the major bodyweight exercises:

• pressups - wide arms, narrow arms ( tricep pressups)
• tricep dips on a step
• deep squats
• lunges, each leg
• ABS - lots in the OP - situps with hands forward, plank, side plank with hip raises, leg raises etc

Pullups / chins Do you have somewhere you can hang onto for these - B&W regained an inch of height from these !
I bought 2 pressups bar that fit in my cellar, one inside the door, one screwed to the ceiling.

HIIT: I recommend Fat Blasts, see OP. e.g. Tabata
Rope Skipping is superb for fitness and very HIT. You can take a rope anywhere.

Hi can I join? Started 5:2 just over a month ago and lost 1/2 stone. So my stats are as follows:

Age 26
Height 5'2 (nearly 5'3)
Weight 9.5 stone
Waist - 30 inches
Hip (below belly button widest part - 34 inches)

Waist is a strange one as I have had extensive surgery and a big scar going across that area. Lots of scar tissue which is raised so I've got a bump there.

I would like to commit to some form of exercise; in the past I have been to the gym and enjoyed it but find it really difficult to sustain going more than twice a week (health issues) so I gave up my membership. I have a yoga DVD and the beginners shred (I used to manage the normal shred every few days but impossible now) but I'm not in any routine of doing them. I get exhausted quickly (health issues) and can't afford to get run down. I did enjoy strength/resistance training greatly at the gym and felt a lot better for it.

I should also mention that because I'm not active my body fat % is really quite ridiculously high (around 37%)

Can anyone give me some suggestions? Hopefully I'll find something sustainable and enjoyable as well that I can stick to. Preferably something I can do at home life is pretty hectic at the moment and no routine.

Look forward to responses and thanks v much in advance.

Welcome, cheeky
I suggest you start by scheduling 20 mins 3 days per week, building up to 5 days

• Your beginner's shred DVD
• Bodyweight strength training: pressups, tricep dips on a step, squats, lunges
• Bum / Glutes: the 2-minute "WorkYourBum" video in the OP
• Abs: situps with hands forward, plank, side plank with hip raises, leg raises.

See "Resistance Training / Lifting" section in the OP if you need instructions

Walk whenever the weather is fine, even 15 mins.
Soon, you can build up fitness by alternating 30 secs gentle jog with 2 mins brisk walk. Then gradually build up into a 15-20 min run.

If you can't leave the house, then rope skipping is great cardio. Start at even 15 secs and build up, with rest breaks.

BigChoc I need your advise.

What is your opinion on the effect of fasting upon muscle strength? I find that when I am eating/binging my muscles stay strong and even get stronger as a rapid rate. But when I am ADF, strengthening my muscles takes weeks, if it occurs at all. I've been fasting for years and have noticed this pattern the whole time.

My problem is that I adore fasting. I love the sense of being 'clean', the clarity it gives to my mind, the feeling of being powerful/resilient against one's cravings, and obviously the speed of the effects on my waistline.

My ideal is to be both lean AND strong.

If I absolutely HAD to choose one or the other, it would be lean. But it's a shame I can't appear to have both. Help!

Geordie Longterm ADF seems physically stressful for lean women in particular, but I wouldn't normally recommend it longterm for anyone of either sex who is already within healthy BMI.
Mattson says he thinks 5:2 is probably healthier longterm than ADF.

For the specific aim of building muscualr strength, your body requires sufficient calories, not just protein, on most days, plus strenuous lifting about 3 days per week.
The lifting causes micro-tears in the muscle fibres and then the recovery days, which repair and rebuild them to be stronger, require rest AND sufficient fuel for the rebuild.
Once you no longer have excess fat reserves easily available as fuel, you need to reduce the FDs.

Professional trainers / lifters who IF and build muscle, agree with this, e.g. Brad Pilon warns against IF becoming Intermittent Feeding.
So, you can IF but you need to adapt your system in order to optimise strength & health.

My suggestion:

1. Do daily 16:8 or 14:10, so that you are having daily fasts
2. Additionally to 1), switch from ADF to 5:2
3. As a variation to 2), try Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat, which is 1-2 times per week having zero cals for 22-24 hrs, then a normal supper which may be over 500 cals, but not a binge.
4. Additionally to all of the above, no snacking between meals or grazing. With just 2-4 times per day when you consume calories, you are more in a fasting mode.

So, basically this replaces ADF with more frequent shorter fasts, but supplies the fuel you need at least 5 days per week to build muscle and maintain optimum health.

Also, what type of calories matters at this level:

• Check over a week that your daily average protein is at least 1.2g per 1kg bodyweight. . On FDs, I have high quality low carb protein shakes (Scitec Nutrition, Quest, Weider, at least 90% protein) to ensure I have sufficient protein within the low cals.
• Keep within nhs alcohol limits and keep sugary junk to a minimum- both alcohol & sugar reduce fasting benefits fir your waist, because they tend to store any excess calories there.

Hi BCF, thanks for advice. Do you recommend I do all your suggestions everyday? Or either the shred or the other things you suggested each day (silly question sorry!)

cheeky Since you are time-poor, I recommended starting with 20 mins on 3 days per week, then increasing to 30 mins on 5 days, as you get fitter.
The eventual aim is to total 2 hrs minimum per week of vigorous exercise, plus a few brisk walks.
Variety is best, especially to keep interest and you couldn't fit it all into 1 day anyway.

To start, I suggest 3 non-consecutive days, e.g. Mon+Wed+Fri, 1 routine per day, each totalling 20 mins:

• Routine 1 = Your beginner's shred DVD
• Routine 2 = Bodyweight strength training: pressups, tricep dips on a step, squats, lunges
• Routine 3 = the 2-minute "WorkYourBum" video plus Abs: situps with hands forward, plank, side plank with hip raises, leg raises.

In addition to these routines, try to have a short walk / jog outside, whenever the weather & time suit.
That could be directly before / after the above routines, or separately at a different time of day.
They could be combined with your top-up shopping, if you can walk to the shops for say bread & milk.

e.g. try to start most non-rainy days with 15 mins Cheeky-time outside, maybe drag your DH with you.
Additionally, plan 3 regular evenings where you have one of the above 20 mins exercise routine

I'm now even more certain that I can manage 1200 press ups in an hour when it comes to my attempt on the 1st July.

Tonight I did 600 in under 30 minutes - 20 every minute, non-stop. Over the next week I'll extend that to 700, then 800 and so on. Once I've done the 1200 I'll start doing sets of 25 every minute - so when it comes to the real thing, 20 will be a doddle!

I only broke sweat round about the 500 mark - and that might have been because I was baking petit pain au chocolat for tomorrow's coffee morning.