5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

[BigChocFrenzy]

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

• Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
• Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
• You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

• The best upper body exercise
• Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
• Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
• Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
• Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
• Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
• To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

• The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
• Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes

• Bring your arms forward
• Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
• Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
• Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

• Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
• Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

1. with dumbell
2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

Thanks BigChoc, I only managed 10-8-8 press-ups yesterday...need to make sure I do more regularly. Can only do about 3 tricep ones and never tried triangle ones so will try to improve that. Determined to have nice arms and shoulders to make up for belly

Broad shoulders genuinely do make the waist appear smaller

Tried your 30 second gap between sets of press ups tonight, BC - 1st 2 were OK, but I had to stop after 10 of the 3rd set. So I increased the gap to 1 minute and did 3 further sets - so 110 press ups in about 9 mins, I think. I'll have another go on Monday.

Yesterday I did one set of 9 x 20 exercises with my 6kg kb - and found it so much within my comfort zone that I got my 9kg kb out and did 3 sets of 5 reps. I'll build up slowly with this - but it's all going in the right direction.

I'm surprised at how much progress I'm making since my op - I guess there must be some muscle memory in place!

Earlier, at table tennis, my YMCA mate was telling everyone how much I'd inspired him with press ups - he's up to 25 now, and is quite rightly proud of himself.

B&W I suggest just 1 set pressups with added weight.
Concentrate on varying the range of pressups you can do with just bodyweight, to load muscle groups differently.
e.g.

• Standard 20 reps, with 30 sec rest between sets
• Diamond 10 reps, with 1 min rest, build up gradually to 20 reps
• 1 hand on (hard) medicine ball & 1 hand on floor, 3-5 reps + swap hands (no gap) = 1 set. Have say 2 mins rest between sets. Build up to 10+10 per set.
• Build up gradually to handstand pressups, 5 reps per set, 2 mins rest.
• As many standard pressups as you can in 2 mins, build up to 5 mins, without rest.

Just do as many sets as you can of each, rather than increasing rest period.

"If there ever was an anti-aging pill, I would call it exercise."

Here's someone to inspire all you young women! (And me!!)

Posted too soon - meant to add my update.

Now completed 100 press ups in 6 minutes - 60 seconds between each set, gradually working down to 30, and
I'm now up to 12 reps with my 9kg kettlebell exercises.

Resting pulse rate down to 48.

< charges in after 90 mins boxing class with Tabata >

I really enjoy hammering the heavy bag and the impacts are good for retaining bone density too. Boxing is fantastic for cardio, strength and flexibility.
Just occurred to me, B&W: Are you able to try punching and see if it appeals ?
I have a punchbag in my cellar; you don't need an opponent.
I also air punch without gloves for cardio, with just 1kg weights.

Yes, 75-yr-old Ernestine is one of my heroes - I linked upthread to an article about her and said how I want to grow up to be like her !

You have a truly excellent pulse, btw - I bet your GP is impressed by your fitness level - and your pressups & kettles have built up again very well.

Hi BC!

Thanks - I'd forgotten you'd linked to Ernestine earlier. Still, it's good to be reminded of such a good role model.

I'll have a look at punching - haven't tried it yet, but I'll report back. It'll be air-punching though - although, having said that, there are some punchbags in the YM. I'll get my mate the manager on to it as well!

I was talking to someone today who has ambitions to be a fitness trainer, and he was saying he did his press ups in sets of ten - it's easier on the muscles, he reckoned.

So tonight I went back to basics, doing sets of 10 with first, 40 secs in between, then, for the last 3 sets, 50 secs recovery. I did my 100 in just under 11 minutes. But I was very conscious of my form all through, which isn't as easy wasn't always the case when doing sets of 20.

But I have to say I'm really enjoying the return of my muscles - they'd gone a bit soft with that 4 month layoff.

Oh, I had the loft ladder down today - Return of the Xmas Tree and all that! - and tried a sneaky pull up. Just the one, but I could still do it! I'll take it up again seriously in the New Year.

Now that I'm feeling much better, and actually managed to run for the tube yesterday, thoughts are turning back to exercise. Think JM may be a bit too much for me at the moment, so thinking about HIIT but am a bit confused with the Fast Blasts particularly the Tabata.

The options seem to be 8x intervals of 20 seconds with 10 seconds recovery

or

2 x 20 second intervals with a 2 min walk in-between.

The latter seems to be a rather easy option by comparison, so I must be missing something?

Granny You have spotted the typo, which I only noticed a few days after posting the OP
It should be 2 x 2 mins flat out with 2 mins recovery

MNHQ won't normally correct typos like that, certainly not in a v long OP, so I hope anyone else who is puzzled will post to ask.

Saw the doc this week, who gave me the all clear on all my exercise routines. He didn't think the cause of my hernia was swinging a k/bell around, and he reckons it'll be safe to move up to a 12kg kb - which will be sometime in the new year.

I went looking for confirmation online and came across this website. The guy seems very sensible and the advice useful.

One quote:
"My official position on kettlebells, then, is that they can be effective for most goals, but best suited to a few specific ones. Which is to say, I like them and I use them for certain things.
The most effective uses of kettlebells, as far as I see it, are for fat loss, conditioning, and developing the posterior chain. Since I’ve written about fat loss training ad nauseam, I’ll focus on the second goal."

That's good news, B&W If you continue to build up cautiously, you should be fine.
That ref has reasonable advice, especially about avoiding dogma and regarding kb as one tool among many.
His "Ladies first" and "lovely Ms. Fonooni" grates, though. Don't copy his attitudes !

Btw, if your doctor advises anything, take that over anything you find online, including these threads. He is the medical professional, with years of professional medical training followed by years of experience. He knows your particular medical history.

Double PB at the gym today and it was fasted training, too:

• 300 lb calf raises, 100 reps in 3 sets - 40,30,30
• 500 pressups in umpteen sets, mostly 10 / 15 reps.

With the pressups, it was my abs that were getting sore rather than my shoukders - shows how hard they work the core.

I wqsn't too tired, but I do boxing on Tuesdays and advanced lifting Wednesdays, each 90 mins v strenuous training.
And I was hungry. So, enough with pressups !

Excellent, BC!

That's very impressive!

Can't do the calf thing, but over the last two and a half hours, I've done 510 press ups!

I did them in sets of 10, 3 mins apart. I quite enjoyed the challenge - and, because I came back fresh every time, my form was consistent throughout. TBH, I could have kept going for several hours more, if necessary.

I know there were long gaps in between, but at least it's given me a marker for the future.

Well done on the pressups, B&W
I took about 10 secs between sets, but 3-5 mins after each hundred
I like calf raises because they work the whole lower body, including glutes, with hardly any knee strain. Of course, good to have defined calfs too.

Have a peaceful Christmas and New Year, everyone

That 300 lb calf raises pb didn't last long - I beat it today (on an FD) with 100 reps at 141 kg (almost 311 lb), 100 reps.

Great stuff, BC!

I've had a break from exercise over Xmas, but I'm back on it today. Can't do a lot ATM, however, since I'm currently on the M25!

So I'll just practice holding my breath a bit - and do some clenching, of course!

Hey
I have read through the thread, and will go back and re read later!
I am on a health and fitness drive, so would appreciate any tips/ideas. I can see you are all serious fito's, so hope you dont mind me joining.

I am very overweight, I am in the super dooper obese category.
I have been LC'ing since mid Nov and also joined the gym around that time.
I have no fitness, some strength in my legs (from holding my body up) , and not a lot in my arms.
I get to the gym at least 4 times a week (except the last week), I now do 30 mins on cross trainer, sometimes I keep to around 5-6kmph and sometimes I up it for a min to around 7-8kmph, and then 30mins on the treadmill I mix this up with 5 mins fast walking, 5 mins a bit slower up a hill, 5 mins faster up a hill, etc, then do around 30 mins on weight machines.
Days I can go to the gym are every day except Wed and Sun.

I have an old injury on my ankle from twisting it badly a few months ago, so tend not to go faster on the treadmill, and get pains in my right knee (if I do too many/too low squats).

I now have some weights at home, so have been doing some exercising with them (I do not have a clue what they are called, have been doing with DH).

I will build up to classes in the future, but these are no where on the horizon for now.

My main aim at the moment is weight loss, and would like to minimise loose skin damage from weight loss.

Thanks

OOOhh and forgot to add, at the moment I am in a position where I am only working 3 days a week and no children, so on the other days I can be exercising on/off through the day.

Hi Concept, great to have you on board!

No doubt our resident motherhen fitness guru, BC, will be along shortly to offer some sage advice.

But, in the meantime, as well as reading the OP on this thread, now you've taken the plunge, you must come and join us on the main thread. The OP on that thread is amazing!

Hi folks, just joining along with the main thread. A new year and new focus needed. Always prefer to run fasted (before breakfast!) so want to figure out how to combiine exercise with IF...looks like I am in the right place, lots to read :)

Welcome, Concept This thread is absolutely for all level.

Your name makes me chuckle; I remember the thread that provided it !

Exercise is great to improve your health markers and tighten up the bod as you lose weight. Your DH sounds very supportive, which is a great help.
What is motivating for beginners is what a difference a month or two can make to fitness, if you stick to it. You will notice strength and endurance improving; how you can climb stairs more easily etc

That's a good start on exercising, but don't be scared of classes - There are always beginners starting. Some should suitable for your level, just ask the desk or the trainer who takes it, when you go in.
A trainer should notice if your technique needs adjusting.
Also, a class can be motivating and make you more likely to continue

Never be embarassed, if that's an issue - we all started somewhere and everyone is interested in their own fitness, not yours.

I recommend a beginner level spin class because sitting on the bike takes the weight off your joints and you can choose your own resistance. Also, beginners who run out of puff can pedal slowly and have rests. You soon build up that puff.

Also, you might like a pump class, where you can lift light weights and again your technique would be monitored.

You can enjoy walks together outdoors, to complement your gym training.

Weight loss is usually 80-90% determined by food & drink intake and I agree with B&W that you would also find the main IF / 5:2 thread very supportive, so do join us there, too.
Many folk successfully combine 5:2 with LC, either because they stop losing on LC alone, or because they want to add some healthy complex carbs and fruit.

Some folk also had a lot to lose and have already made great progress on 5:2
Lots of info in the OP there, also a "How to Start" section.

To improve fitess, I recommend adding walking intervals of say 1 min brisk pace and maybe even higher gradient, alternating with 1 min normal pace.
That's a beginner version of HIIT, using the same principles.

Welcome, Standing

If you don't already, I recommend adding HIIT and heavier lifting. They go very well with IF and optimising fitness.
I love boxing too, non-contact sparring and heavy punchbag, superb for fitness.
Once you get used to fasting, most of us who are fairly fit find we can train at high intensity on FDs for an hour.
It's not the time to do marathon training, though.

Gentle Intro to Intermittent Fasting
Eat 2-3 meals every day, no snacks / calories in between.
Eat only within an 8 or 10 hr eating window, e.g. 12:30 pm - 8:30pm, or 9am - 7pm