The 5:2 thread number 36 - Fighting (& losing) the Battle of the Bulge? Eating too much junk? 5:2 is a healthy, sustainable way to achieve & maintain your goal weight. Join our friendly support group!

[BigChocFrenzy]

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

B&W The same belt every day . Yes, no need then to mention you are a bloke.

Btw: Almost all of the older hands skip breakfast, so have just espresso / tea / veg Juice. "breakfast makes you hungry" GeekStuff

Many have a veg soup or stew for lunch, to save most cals for a decent supper.

That's just FDs. On NFD's, I like 3 meals, at least 1 big 'un.

Hello there,
Back to work after being ill at the start of the week. Have had a late lunch and ate all the things I've really been looking forward to for a while now.
Toasted sandwich,
2 lattes
Scone, clotted cream and jam.
I don't know why, but I find it really funny - it was almost essential that I could allow myself to eat this. They are some of my really favourite foods.
But now I'm so full!
Light meal tonight and then FD tomorrow. It'll be hard tomorrow - working from 8.30am to 10.00pm.
That plus a FD- a bit scarey for me

www.kabutonoodles.com/ curveball they are just posh pot noddles they taste quite nice and come in at 300 kcals

Oh yes - NSV- I am really happy to be able to pull my skirt up over my hips instead of down over my head ! Hurrrah !!

Time, Grace and Morris.

There is plenty of debate on tinternet about the amount of fasting calories which provide the optimum health benefits.

Lots of the body building sites seem to go for more like 700/800.

The one thing most of them can agree on is that if your body fat low (Lower than 16% for women and 12% for men), then you shouldn't eat LESS than 500 or 600 cals as you lose muscle not fat.

Exactly as Bigchoc says, you're still creating a significant deficit.

I still think you'll experience good health benefits at that sort of level.

It's far better to come in on 700 or 800 cal regularly then feel you've failed and stuff yourself with biscuits (classic "diet" cycle).

Personally doing 5:2 since August 2013. My blood pressure was sky high. It's now completely normal and actually very good for my age (40). My resting heart rate was about 80, its now 59.

I have and do plenty of "FD" which are like mini fasts. Ie 700/800 cals.

I have 2 small DC, a DH who is never home. So with everything that goes on, it's often hard to eat well. Tiredness stress, endless child illnesses, up all night etc etc is usually or rather used to be a recipe for diving headlong into the biscuit tin.

It isn't any longer. And I eat far healthier. Simply because the healthy stuff ie lean protein and veg lets me have a maohssive portion on a FD.

You will still see good weightloss and results.

There are lots of very experienced fasters on this thread (Betsy, Bssh, Breadandwine, Bigchoc, Earslaps, Eatriskier ). And they have worked towards liquid only fasts and fasts below 200 cals. I don't think they started this way.

I am a wimp so I did 16:8, then under 1000 cals and worked my way downwards. I've done a few LOFs but I've never ever been under 400 cals on a FD yet. Perhaps later when I'm more used to this woe/wol.

I have a cold just to add to my misery of sick DC. Feel dreadful. Still doing my FD but will be a mini fast of 800 cals.

It may be in a link somewhere else, but what does 'Liquid Only Fast' actually mean please? Presumably not alternate hot chocolate and gin...

apologies for not reading all the thread. I have had wine. First since one before Christmas.

difficult day children and school wise . did wrong. fed up. Wish I had a mum to help me.

Lovely lunch of grilled turkey escalope with watercress sauce and ratatouille is looong gone, and work shows no sign of stopping. Miso soup is helping but I need my dinner! Booo hoo.

Or Errol's LOF diet would do nicely too.

how can I have had lunch and dinner plus some wine and still have 596 calories to eat

No breakfast or snacks would do it.

Great to read positive LSVs.

I'm on FD5 and was sooo close to giving up. Around 14:00 when I'd had my salad and jelly pot, I felt hungry and was convinced I would not make it today, I really wanted to run to the shop and get ANYTHING to eat. But work meant I couldn't leave my desk until 15:00, by which time the shop is closed. So I had a packet of porridge (105 cals) bought for fast day emergencies, and that pulled me through.

Just had my soup and orange, and now I know I'll make it.

To be honest though, all these comments like at the beginning you can just do 800cal fasts tempts me, I start to tell myself I could just have an extra snack and it'd still be a fast.....

Looking forward to tomorrow breakfast as ever. Well done successes today xx

Errol An LOF (Liquid Only Fast) is just what is says on the tin:
Fast on liquids only, staying within your planned calories limit, whether that be 0 or 500 cals.

Mark Mattson or someone did a study where participants drank 4 Atkins protein shakes on FDs, so they came in at about 600'cals total.
I usually do shake FDs, because it is very low carb and saves time preparing food and counting cals.
[lazy face]
Liquids means : thin liquids, so not soups, but does include bouillon, protein shakes, milk, tea, coffee, fizzy drinks etc as well as water, obviously.
Some count soups as LOF, but I am a purist here

You could do a 500-cal gin fast, but not recommended.

Well done Don't be Blue.
Hugs to Toffee

Varady's studies showed 25% TDEE on FDs was the optimum combination for fat loss and retention of muscle on ADF, better than 0% or 50% etc.

Noone has studied this for 5:2, but ever since I read her book, I aim for 500 cal FDs and I no longer do very low-cal FDs. It's just as a gym bunny, I want to retain all my muscle, so I play safe.

(({ HUGs })) to Toffee. Don't let things get you down. We're here for you.

Thanks everyone

Just feel like parenthood is so hard and I get 99% of it wrong.

Don'tBeBlue It's good to have a healthy emergency snack mini-meal for FD emergencies. It is far better to feel good with a healthy 600-800 cal FD than to grab a 500-cal choc muffin or cheesecake and end junked up.

Aw toffee hope you are ok

Bigchoc - thanks ... so if it can be the same calories, what is the benefit of LOF versus a 'normal' FD please?

Bit of a disaster today . Almost nothing but carbs all day. Hot cross buns and toast. Didn't go over cal limit, but only had 2 clementines and an apple, no protein at all. Possibly have been doing too many fast days, so once I started with the toast it was a bit too satisfying. Will try a normal, 2000-cal day tomorrow, but maybe with some actual nutrients...

Sending hugs toffee Its bloody hard sometimes x
On my 4th FD. Did 7pm last night til 7pm tonight. Had sour chickpeas to break fast - about 400cals. Been at work all day so think IM gonna flop in front of the fire, do a bit of yoga and call it a night.