Grade 5 Music Theory help!

[FedUpWithBriiiiick]

DS (13) has to do his ABRSM Grade 5 Theory. He has never done a Music Exam theory test before, but we were reassured by teacher(s) that he will have no problems with it, and can do it without any tutoring.

Got the official ABRSM Discovering Theory workbook and cannot make heads or tails of it! Neither DH or I have any skills in this so we are floundering. Can anyone suggest books/resources to support learning, or should we bite the bullet and find a tutor? Would uni students do this sort of thing?

Oh, and @FedUpWithBriiiiick @mycoffeecup I think he's got plenty of time to get to grade eight by 17, surely? I'm no expert but my younger dd took grade 5 in her (now) first instrument in April last year. She's 13.

She's now grade eight standard and off to musical specialist school on it on a government-funded place.. Progress isn't linear.

I was so terrified by some of the posters on here and the standards of their children that I assumed we'd be laughed at when she talked about becoming a musician at these elite schools. Very far from it. There seem to be tortoises in music as well as hares, and everything in between - and passion can surely take you a long way.

I know there are some terrifying prodigies out there but it would be sad for children to be put off music before they started later or didn't have the advantages early on.

and @OhCrumbsWhereNow - yes she did, which was useful for music gcse! I hope it works for you - they're all different aren't they... I was just so delighted it was out of the way.

My kids both went through all the workbooks and had theory lessons at music centre (which consisted of going through the workbooks and getting feedback rather than actual teaching) no way could anyone just sit the exam as your teachers are suggesting. A good chunk of it is memorising-vocab, other musical directions, chord structures etc that can be done without a tutor but I think the bits like “write 5 bars to music to complete the melody” and transpose from treble to tenor clef for example would benefit from guidance from someone who knows what they’re talking about.

Thank you!

Oh and agree with your other post as well.

@FedUpWithBriiiiick don't panic with exams at all.

DD is firmly focused on a career in music and has not one single certificate in her first study and no plans to do any exams in it.

Second study we have done exams and it's the worst choice I could have ever made. She loathes the pieces and the lack of flexibility to work on what she wants to do, and finds every excuse under the sun to spend lessons doing other things. Finally have agreement with the teacher to stop exams after the current one and just learn, but I suspect she will never regard the instrument fondly and I wish I had put my foot down years ago.

Third study I went in forewarned and said to just teach her to play and go at her pace even if it seems way too ambitious. While it's early days still she's both flying in terms of progress and really enjoying it.

She already works professionally and to date nobody in the industry has EVER asked if she has grades or what they are. Universities seem to like G8 music theory, but everywhere else is far more interested in what they can actually do in terms of performance or composition.

On the progression to grade 8 thing, I think it makes a huge difference which instrument you play eg piano seems to take a lot longer and kids go through each grade whereas for brass instruments it’s common to go straight to grade 5 then to grade 8 (with g5 theory in between).

Definitely seems progression is much faster in some than others.

We've also found that sometimes you can start one, it goes off the boil or it's not quite the right time and taking a few years away and coming back can make a huge difference - especially if they are very young at the start.

You see kids who are incredibly impressive at extremely young ages (6, 7 years old) but there are plenty who start much later and are just as musically talented.

It's definitely not linear and every child needs their own pathway - which may well not tally with what ABRSM or others have as the norm!

@FedUpWithBriiiiick if your DC is dyslexic then get the school write in support of extra time for theory exams (can also get it for practical exams too - v useful as it gives you 3 minutes to look at the sight-reading instead of 30 seconds...)

I agree with PPs about not worrying over exams/grades. My eldest is a scholar at Royal College of Music and has never taken an exam in her first study (and had only been learning a year much affected by COVID) when she got the schloarship and place. She took Grade 5 theory in Yr 7 and her Grade 8s in Yr 8 & 9 so not one of the 9 year old prodigies you read about.

Good to know I can ask school to help on that front. I do have Ed Psych reports otherwise.

It's looking as if her dyslexia is also applying to musical notation as well (it often doesn't) as we've only found out in last 2 weeks that she's been pretending to read sheet music for the last 8 years! She props it up and looks like she's following but apparently it's all one big incomprehensible blob and she does it all by ear instead. Only found out when two of her teachers met up and compared notes. So I will be very, very happy if she passes the theory!

I didn't at all mean he can't do it - just that in terms of standard of playing, most who do music at university will be about grade 7 standard by 13, so if OP's son is grade 5 standard he just needs to make sure he ups the practice time etc. not so much about the exams done, but how you play, as it's all in the audition

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - wow - her musical ear must be extraordinarily good!

It does seem to be - and the professionals she works with don't seem to ever go near sheet music (one said he hasn't used it in over 25 years) so we never really clocked that she couldn't.

She has been asking people to 'just play it through for me' when she gets something new and that is enough for her to then work from while pretending she's looking at the score, or using YouTube if she gets stuff in advance at home. She's extremely fast at picking things up so nobody noticed.

I might start a new thread on musical dyslexia as I'm not finding a huge amount of research out there and would be interesting to see if others have insights as I suspect it may become an issue in coming years.

https://www.mymusictheory.com

Is a good source for theory.

Mycoffeecup, are you thinking about doing music at conservatoire? At uni playing standard is much more variable. And will depend whether/how much performance is in the assessments. The theory and history side is more important for uni than the playing.

RowenaCoxwell There is no longer a composition element. The syllabus has been dumbed down considerably since all theory grades 1 to 5 are only online. It is mostly multiple choice now.

OP can the instrumental teacher(s) help? At the very least they should be able to mark past papers and give feedback. If you are buying past papers make sure they are the recent ones, older ones go with the previous syllabus.

As an aside, I am frequently baffled that theory is not always covered in instrumental lessons. It sometimes seems as if the teachers think they are two unrelated subjects.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow I'm hugely impressed. DD is almost the other way round - absolutely wedded to sheet music when she really doesn't need to be. She was a freakily early reader and loves patterns and logic and I think it's just an extension of that. She can play by ear but will absolutely not most of the time.

Might your DD be better with Practical Musicianship, which is the theory alternative? Mine could never do that but it sounds like she has real talent

@minisnowballs
I honestly don't know which is the better method - certainly for classical I reckon a very high ability to read sheet music would be a huge advantage. I think so much is about what works for them and not sure you can force someone to adapt beyond a certain point if it works for them - also probably depends on what their end goal is.

DD didn't learn to read till she was 7, but was a ridiculously early talker. I hate kids TV so she was watching proper films and listening to a lot of music from a very young age which I assume is why she's always had a vocabulary far beyond her reading ability.

For what she wants to do in the future I think she can get away without reading music - you can compose on computers which just print it out for you, or do it all aurally and then just send the recording off to various companies that send you back the sheet music - but she does need to understand theory in a practical way if that makes sense. Her focus is firmly in popular and contemporary music.

Problem is that music is not my field at all (I can read music but people would pay NOT to have to hear me) and so I am of little help.

I've been very honest with the tutor - and if it turns out to be impossible then I won't be blaming him!

I'm going to check out the Practical Musicianship as I'd not heard of that.

Hi all, music teacher posting here 👋 I've created an online course specifically to help students pass their ABRSM grade 5 music theory (called Get Grade 5 Theory). This was initially created for my own students, but I've just launched it to the wider public. The course can be found here: https://www.getgrade5theory.com/students-about.

As part of the course you can opt to also have live tuition (via live Q&A sessions, or by opting for a monthly 1:1 session as part of your membership). This means students ALWAYS have the option to talk with a music teacher directly, as well as access all the course content + worksheets.

Very happy to answer any questions about the course and/or the exam itself if helpful :)

This is the course I used with my middle son Will - he passed Grade 5 theory one week afterwards!
https://www.celebratewithmusic.co.uk/grade-5-theory-course/