January Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Happy New Year!

Sorry I'm a bit late starting this thread - I've been away for a few days without internet access. Anyway, this is our monthly thread for musicians and parents of musicians of all ages and all abilities. It's a great place to chat, or to ask questions about lessons, practice, exams, auditions or anything music-related.

I have two DDs: Goo (11 and in Year 6) who plays the flute, recorder and piano, and Rara (8 and in Year 4) who plays the cello, recorder and clarinet. I think we have Grade 7 Flute and Grade 1 Clarinet coming up this term, and also the local music festival and Junior Young Musician competition for Goo. Grade 7 Recorder and Grade 3 Cello are tentatively pencilled in for the summer, but we'll think about those nearer the time. Goo is also in NCO, and lives for it... it's all she talks about, she loves writing to and texting all the friends she's made there, and she is in Under 12s this year. I am a teacher of woodwind and have a little clarinetist who's just got into Under 10s. I hope to have a few more trying out next time.

Yes, 2017 resolution is foreign language to catch up. Havent got any plan for it though. I might do a simple thing that sending her to our French friends who live in South France and speak little English. I am hoping for her to be able to speak couple of foreign languages, Doesnt matter which one.

First piano lesson is back today. We planned for couple pieces of around grade 6 standard but non-syllabus ones, will find out which one tonight. No exam planned for this term for piano though. Violin, I havent had the connection needed with our new teacher yet. She hasnt been as much responsive on emails as I'd like to. Last time I was told that scales are good, bowing and certain techniques are needed. To be honest, she writes down homeworks, I just have to read it and figure out what is what.

MrsW DD also loves algebra. She's good at applied maths but I think she prefers it when it's more abstract. She is less keen on stats and probability.

I don't think there is any strong correlation between music and languages, but I do think that having a "good ear" is helpful for both. DD has a noticeably better accent than the other students in her Spanish class (it's so good spanish people generally assume she has spanish speaking family), and it's definitely not down to bilingualism because there are other bilingual kids in the group.

Oh, I am behind again, and missed an interesting discussion....

Dd's teacher's opinion (I don't necessarily agree with it but he is a professional musician, so may have some observations from experience) is that it is not a connection between music and maths but both have pattern and people who are good at one will probably good at another. And this is also why there are so many autistic people seem to be good at music-as ASD people are usually good at patterns.

My friend, who is piano teacher, also says that she usually has two types of abilities-one is creative - who are good at music but useless at maths concepts and those who are good at music and maths. Obviously these two categories have different approaches two - first is probably more intuitive, second is more analytical? Smth like that....

Just opinions...

Speaking for myself as a mathematician and amateur musician I would agree that pattern-spotting is common to both. However, even within mathematics there are many branches and it's not uncommon at all that mathematicians who are brilliant at one branch are hopeless at another. And also the performance of music, while involving pattern-spotting, also requires a lot of skills you don't require in mathematics.

So my conclusion is that a person is good at whatever a person is good at.

Hi all,such an interesting discussion. I've also heard that there is a link between music and maths.Can I chuck my opinion in?

Ds really struggles with maths but that may be to do with his autism. However he is very creative in a musical way. And I would agree with Only that it's all to do with seeing patterns. He can't draw or anything but he can play a melody (violin) and improvise around it. He can harmonise it to though not sure if that's the right terminology. He's currently working on his audition pieces for Guildhall and really wants to improvise with them but not sure whether he should!!

I do feel that mathematicians can be taught the rudiments of music fairly easily, but that it doesn't work the other way!

I'd let him get on with it, Disorganised, as long as he is doing what his teacher has asked him too, as well.

I know lots of high level musicians (and very able child musicians) with autism.

"I do feel that mathematicians can be taught the rudiments of music fairly easily, but that it doesn't work the other way!"

I would (nearly) agree with that. Maybe it is not that hard to teach the rudiments of mathematics if you get the 1-1 an hour a week and plenty of practice in between ...

Disorganised - oh i would def let him; for a young string player to be comfortable improvising is a great thing. Last year at cello day at Trinity Laban, dd's group had to improvise around the room and dd has to at NYJC days - its a real mind bender for a lot of string players it seems, but a great way to practice

Never, agreed, many times I wonder mine finds maths easier because that is the only subject we could help her and did. To be honest, anything can be learnt, just if you like to learn it and has been prioritising it and put enough work. Some could naturally learn certain things faster (at certain time) though.

Stringchild I say improvising but he'll change the odd note here or there or do a trill or a double stop. He won't write it on he music but he likes to do different things with a piece! Is that improvising??

Gillybeanz - sorry I missed your post about unhelpful comments by teachers. Agreed some don't engage brains before speaking. A friend of mine is fortunate enough to have a lovely indoor swimming pool. She was told by a PE teacher 'i can't understand why you are so rubbish as swimming as you have a pool at home'

How interesting disorganisedmummy. I was sure your ds was excellent at maths... Do you reckon it is him or not very good teaching?
How about languages?

Btw, it is not my opinion about patterns, but dd's teacher
My opinion is that either there is a connection between m & m, or, as Waffle suggested, it is cognitive skills related (never thought about it in this way but liked the idea)

Only ds seems to have an aptitude for languages so I'm told but is only in year 6 so only doing French at mo but has dabbled in some Italian. He is always told what a fantastic accent he has for both French and Italian. Re maths his year 5 teacher said he has "a somewhat indifferent attitude to maths"🤔. Some aspects of it he finds ok but others he struggles. He has problems processing information so this may be why.

My friend, who is piano teacher, also says that she usually has two types of abilities-one is creative - who are good at music but useless at maths concepts and those who are good at music and maths. Obviously these two categories have different approaches two - first is probably more intuitive, second is more analytical?

Just to throw a spanner in the works, DD is a good mathematician but her musical gift is more intuitive than analytic. For DD I would say music is closer to a language than to numbers, it's something that is absorbed not learnt.

My DD is really strong at maths but HOPELESS at arithmetic. Fortunately her maths teacher has recognised her potential at it, probably because maths teacher is also bad at arithmetic, so has persuaded DD that bad arithmetic does not necessarily equal bad maths. I don't know if there is a music/maths correlation though, DD knows lots of great musicians whose maths is hopeless.

loose you're kind, I will pm you dates just in case, I was just mentioning the tickets because we've been asked to promote it as their dream is to fill the hall

Very interesting chat! Music and maths? Music and languages? Music and creative writing? who knows. DS certainly loves languages hence he chose as GCSE options French and Latin (Spanish is just an added extra). As music engages the whole of the brain - or so they say - it must reinforce so many different areas, it's a ripple echo effect. One thing is clear: so many of the greats in music were also people who spoke several languages. Whether that's because they traveled and moved a lot or not, I don't know. Kissin taught himself Yiddish for the love of it (on top of speaking English, Russian, Hebrew and French).

They say Kissin is asd... Which does not surprise me at all.... I read his piano teacher moved in to his house....
Disorganised, ah, your ds is probably into verval staff then! I read some research whete it was showing that the same part of the brain is responsible for some languages aspect (or was it speech? I don't remember now....) and musical ability....
Btw, I remeber there was a long thread about connection between math and music, will try to find link when at my computer.

Verbal, not verval....

It is an interesting chat.

On a more practical note, DS1s favourite Christmas presents were his own iron (the uni flat one is rubbish apparently) and a shoe cleaning kit. These are for band concerts. Nice to know music is keeping him smart too!

Helen total sympathies with solos being spoiled, especially in your DDs last year

Raspberry: nice presents, music players do look(very) smart.
Prada: how was tge travelling to the school for second round today. I can imagine you are having a glass now to breath as the day is over.

The piano lesson tonight went well. We chose 1 Clementi, 1 Beethoven and 1 Bach and we are back to etudes. She was so engaged during the lesson to my surprise(working from home today so be able to be in the lesson-tube strike). I can not for 1 moment to imagine that this little roller could sit still for the whole hour and so focused.

This is such an interesting topic, dd friend is very able in Maths and about 3 years in advance.
She took to music in primary and was very good for a beginner, both school and we encouraged her, but her parents couldn't see the point, there again they are the same about her Maths ability.
We all tried to get the parents interested in their dd future but failed miserably.

Dd back at school again, had a brilliant report and think she may get an award this year, as has really improved attitude and effort in every class except English and that was still satisfactory.
She is still nowhere near grade 5 Theory, but school don't seem to bothered.
In other respects she is beyond the grading system and understanding jazz harmony, able to solo improvise in big Band etc.
Ask her to answer theory questions though and she just struggles so much.
It isn't like she doesn't understand, but struggles to retain the info, a bit like me really.

I love these threads as we all seem to have children/ teachers taking varying approaches and the range of instruments is interesting too.

Back to school for DD today and she came home happy that she saw her friends and had lots of fun.

Green which pieces did your DD chose? Trying to find more inspiration in case we have them about as she can't wait to start something new once the festival is over in a month time.

I will need to have a look tonight Fleur, just saw his note for this week practice, will show it to her tonight. We have our county festival this March so we aim for 2months for these pieces(if I remember to do the registration this week).

I have confession to make ladies...
Yesterday I took my dd to Brownies for the first time ever....
I am thinking now-what is happening to this world if children got God knows what grades at such a young age but are missing such a normal childhood activities like Brownies?....
Or is it just my fault as a parent?
What a great place to be - Brownies...
Is there anything of that kind for boys too?