EU article 16

[Baileysforchristmas]

What does everyone think of the EU after their terrible behaviour re AZ and article 16 towards Ireland’s border?

It shows the EU in a very bad light.

The repudiation are improbable - how the fuck does something like that happen if not fully intended and approved?

My opinion of EU competency in international affairs and trade deals has gone down. And the choice of language by some has been really quite astonishing

@GamingNewb , if the EU wants be be this way, that's its own business. It's my business when it explicitly fucks with the NI Protocol.

But it's also my business if it interferes with vaccination plans here. They are trying to steal vaccines intended for the UK.

"Steal ". Ffs. Perhaps we should take them to court.

“Steal”... bit melodramatic there? They have a contract with a company and they’re applying their not inconsiderable muscle to attempt having it delivered.

They’re not trying to sneak into the factory in the dead of night and pull off the heist of the century.

Personally I think the vaccine stuff was misguided. Some of the language being thrown around was awful (but no worse than the Brexit stuff here to be honest).

But they’ve crossed a line by publicly threatening to fuck with the GFA. After 4 years of taking the high road.

Its what I’d expect from Trump or Johnson. I wouldn’t have expected it from the EU.

Once you’ve seen someone show those tendencies... well... they’re my bad book with said populist wankers now.

But stealing? C’mon...

I don't think 'steal' is melodramatic when they are talking about goods which had been shipped under other legal, valid, pre-existing contracts before they were in a position to purchase.

The CEO of AZ has given an interview laying out why do not consider they have breached the contract that exists (and which has now been published). There is nothing whatsoever in that which indicates that EU should have received anything before EMA approval, including holding back supplies against the day that approval came.

I think the EU has acted indefensibly on several strand in this issue.

😂 stealing, you’re sounding like the EU, demanding would be a better word. Personally I think a compromise should’ve been met and hopefully still will, both sides think they are legally right re contract, i’m no lawyer so have no idea, there is always misinterpretation. We need to work together on this as otherwise everything false apart for everyone. The EU just went in all guns blazing, that’s not good, it shows they lost control.

Stopping the export of vaccines (which they have said they are going to do) which AZ say should be delivered to the UK under the terms of their contract with us is stealing.
They have illegally published an unreadacted version of their contract with AZ which says that AZ will use their "best efforts" which they are doing. Their contract does not guarantee delivery of x amount of vaccine it says they will do their best.
Take the blinkers off..the EU are intending to steal AZ vaccine which should be delivered here.

@C8H10N4O2

Boris Johnson called to invoke article 16 recently, the NI Unionists have been lobbying to involve it for weeks - Arlene Foster was banging on about it againi this morning. This doesn't seem to get a fraction of the attention that one stupid decision in Brussels, rapidly reversed, has received

Actually the reason the unionists and Boris were talking of invoking the article is because of the problems we have getting supplies here in NI. Our very way of life is currently being affected. Lorry drivers are carrying back empty trailers because they can’t get the goods over from GB which is part of our own country. We are becoming cut off from the rest of the UK in terms of one way of goods movement.
The haulage industry here is losing thousands. Large supermarkets such as Sainsbury’s are crying out over the likelihood NI is going to suffer shortages. We hear it on the news here everyday. Many of our shelves are much emptier now with whole ranges of Gb goods missing. I notice it when I’m shopping. People have ordered goods online only to watch the tracking show it appear to come to Belfast and then go back to England again because it hasn’t had the right number of customs numbers.
THAT is a justifiable reasons to invoke the article so that NI people don’t suffer. Why should we suffer over something that was done to benefit Gbs exit and the Eu bloc?

However the reason given by the EU were not justifiable. They did not consult with either PM nor indicate they were going to allow the required minimum notice period. They were not doing it to protect NI nor ROI but instead as an act of hostility and control for their wider citizens. That is what is concerning most. That something could be happening in Eastern Europe next year and suddenly we get cut off from RoI whilst simultaneously being restricted on goods flow internally from our own country!!
There also was no research done to justify it. A small country such as NI with a population of 1.8m people is hardly going to reasonably be shipping in 60m vaccines via Rosslare in order to smuggle to GB!!! Complete overreaction by the EU

And the 2 fingers to the Taoiseach after telling ROI for 5 years they would work to prevent a hard border on the land and only after 29 days they moved to do it with no thought nor consultation.
Wonder when they will do it again!

The EU have shown themselves to be naive and arrogant at the same time. Naive to think that they can take months to decide whether they want to order a vaccine whilst the World and it’s wife is competing for it. And also arrogant to think that those who ordered a vaccine months before them shouldn’t take priority. The EU has backed the wrong horses and then put a bet on the winner once it was in the final furlong. They’ll have to wait in line like we are on other vaccines (Moderna). The delusion and breathtaking arrogance from the EU is of no surprise. They are now riding rough shod over any law and principle you can care to think of. They have shown their true colours. I’m glad the rest of you have caught up with those that called the EU out back in 2016 and before.

However the reason given by the EU were not justifiable. They did not consult with either PM nor indicate they were going to allow the required minimum notice period. They were not doing it to protect NI nor ROI but instead as an act of hostility and control for their wider citizens

Oh I agree it was a stupid decision, would that the UK government was as quick to roll back stupid decisions. I don't accept it was an act of hostility - the EU's responsibility is to its own citizens not those of third countries.

I'm fully aware of the problems with supply chains in NI. Boris and Arlene have both threatened article 16 with no mention of discussing first with the Dublin government. Brexit was always going to be a nightmare for NI, that is not the fault of the EU.

@C8H10N4O2

However the reason given by the EU were not justifiable. They did not consult with either PM nor indicate they were going to allow the required minimum notice period. They were not doing it to protect NI nor ROI but instead as an act of hostility and control for their wider citizens

Oh I agree it was a stupid decision, would that the UK government was as quick to roll back stupid decisions. I don't accept it was an act of hostility - the EU's responsibility is to its own citizens not those of third countries.

I'm fully aware of the problems with supply chains in NI. Boris and Arlene have both threatened article 16 with no mention of discussing first with the Dublin government. Brexit was always going to be a nightmare for NI, that is not the fault of the EU.

Backing the EU on this is not a good look. Trying to make out they are simply protecting their own interests is really not a good look either. How would the World work if everyone just looked after themselves whilst ignoring any law and protocol going? The EU have made Donald Trump look like a decent guy with their activities. Shameful.

I'm backing NI not the EU. Not even NI, which is still majority pro-UK wanted Brexit , because of this stupid shit. Am I surprised that the EU is just as bad as GB on protecting NI? Yeah, I am. Do I think Ireland is handling the pandemic brilliantly? No, not really but not quite as dreadful as Johnson.
The EU owes NI and Ireland big time after this fiasco. That's currently the only straw I can clutch at in this shitshow.

@C8H10N4O2

All countries have a responsibility to other countries in a modern civilised world especially if they expected it to be reciprocated. They were already being criticised for their hostile talk of vaccine exports needing to be approved before shopping to other countries.

Boris and the unionists only talked about it. They didn’t send out a sweeping statement announcing it was going to happen. So yes I do think they would have consulted Dublin.

The EU also has a responsibility to NI and indeed their own member country of ROI in terms of the international peace treaty and in the NI protocol.

For Northern Ireland a border doesn’t work on neither the land NOR the sea. I’ve said that all along

Shipping*

Let’s not forget that wars start when countries act selfishly. Behaving like a selfish bully in the middle of a pandemic is a poor and very concerning look for the EU.

All countries have a responsibility to other countries in a modern civilised world especially if they expected it to be reciprocated. They were already being criticised for their hostile talk of vaccine exports needing to be approved before shopping to other countries

I agree all countries have a responsibility to others. It isn't the EU who have been spouting jingoistic bollocks about "our vaccine" and "you snooze you lose" when UK plant wasn't ready to deliver. On the countrary EU plant supported the UK supply enabling it to roll out quickly. Now the boot is on the other foot. At some point in the coming year UK supply will falter simply due to the production methods. Its just stupid to pretend we are alone in this and that even our own interest is served by hogging supply of the currently productive units. This is exactly why pharma supply chain contracts build in the option to deliver from alternative plant when the primary falters.

Boris and the unionists only talked about it. They didn’t send out a sweeping statement announcing it was going to happen. So yes I do think they would have consulted Dublin

I think experience of Boris and his unerring prioritisation of his own best interests whilst sticking two fingers up at any other consideration is against you. He is possibly the first PM I can recall who has so consistently put his own interests first - he doesn't even believe in it.

WHO has made a statement criticising EU's actions and cautioning against vaccine nationalism.

They have not done so in respect of other countries' actions

It's likely the EU don't really see Ireland and the Irish people as "one of them", but the Irish maybe didn't realise that until now.

Ireland and the Irish were useful bargaining chips to the EU, assets in a political power play, but European? A real member of the EU club, as seen by the big players of Continental Europe? No.

It's a stark and sad as that.

Scotland will be the same (should they be permitted to join after being rejected when it wasn't useful to the EU to assist and accept them).

Up until this point everyone recognised the importance of the whole world having access to the vaccine to beat the pandemic.
I would hope this will not escalate into a common theme around the world and that all nations can agree to a fair share. As more citizens get vaccines it should become less of a problem

However the EU needs to learn fast that they cannot invoke article 16 on. a whim. It was a very destabilising act and will cause ripples in NI for ages to come even though they have back tracked. People don’t realise that with all the talk of protecting the land border lest Republican violence rises up again, that equally there is discontent among loyalists who have been ignored in all the talk of back stops and protocols. The shortages and issues here already fuel that fire and the comments from the Eu last night made it 10 times worse. The EU got universal condemnation from all leaders here.
Whatever you think of loyalists or republicans the fact remains that there are two side to protecting peace in Northern Ireland. Peace is threatened here and the PSNI is aware of it.
The world leaders ( yes Boris and the Eu) need to act more responsibly

Very bad. Nothing good to say and I voted remain.

"It's likely the EU don't really see Ireland and the Irish people as "one of them", but the Irish maybe didn't realise that until now."
Its likely that Von Der Leyen either fucked up directly or delegated the work to someone who fucked up.
EU is full of "little countries " and it is standard now to make sure you don't fuck them all off with German/French exceptionalism.

@bellinisurge

"It's likely the EU don't really see Ireland and the Irish people as "one of them", but the Irish maybe didn't realise that until now." Its likely that Von Der Leyen either fucked up directly or delegated the work to someone who fucked up. EU is full of "little countries " and it is standard now to make sure you don't fuck them all off with German/French exceptionalism.

The EU knew exactly what it was doing. To claim otherwise is a joke. There was no mistake made. They simply realised they had dropped a massive ball and decided to pick it back up again.

If the EU knew what it was doing on this, why did back track so quickly?
There were plenty of opportunities to shaft Ireland during the Brexit negotiations, if that what they wanted to do. They couldn't because a) it would be wrong and b) they would piss of other little countries who, together, make up most of the EU.
It was a fuck up. God knows what the consequences will be. Let's hope it isn't negative for Ireland.