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Brexit

What is the govts motivation?

53 replies

notevenat20 · 13/12/2020 07:55

Could anyone pro Brexit/Tory please explain the govts motivation at the moment please.

Normally politicians either act in the interests of the country or themselves. I don’t understand how having no deal with the EU is good for either. Why does it benefit Johnson if there is chaos and extra costs for UK business? I can see he might blame it all on covid but wouldn’t it have been better for him if he had arranged deals that helped the UK and then told us all what a success Brexit was? I am confused.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 19/12/2020 13:19

Deliberately creating a bad situation that will damage many people just so that you can make money would a very bad thing for a government official (or anyone) to do. But that's not what is happening.

I don't think you can know that. There are people around who would be perfectly happy to damage others as long as they are all right jack.

Kendodd · 19/12/2020 13:31

I think Mistigri is spot on. Johnson blundered into this (taking us all with him) by a series of bad decisions, there is no master plan.

Have any Leavers shown up yet to point out the sunlit uplands?

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 13:55

it was about recognising unsustainability in the valuation of asset backed securities and betting against the economy. Same as disaster capitalists will do in the event of Brexit.

Deliberately creating a bad situation that will damage many people just so that you can make money would a very bad thing for a government official (or anyone) to do. But that's not what is happening.
I think Aaron Banks will be laughing all the way to the bank. This is EXACTLY what's happening.

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 14:00

Why else did he give millions to the Leave Campaign. You think he would just give it away if he wasn't to gain something from it??

SheeshazAZ09 · 19/12/2020 14:07

Johnson wants no deal with EU so he can make trade deal with the US and we can have all their crappy food including hormone fed meat, antibiotic fed meat and unlabelled GM foods. Don’t underestimate the last item, Johnson hyped GM crops in his first three speeches as prime minister. The EU has strict rules on these things but the US doesn’t.

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 14:28

@SheeshazAZ09

Johnson wants no deal with EU so he can make trade deal with the US and we can have all their crappy food including hormone fed meat, antibiotic fed meat and unlabelled GM foods. Don’t underestimate the last item, Johnson hyped GM crops in his first three speeches as prime minister. The EU has strict rules on these things but the US doesn’t.
He is unlikely to get a trade deal with the US after Biden's win.
Applesonthelawn · 19/12/2020 15:28

I don't think you can know that.. You're right I can't know it, but I do believe it's unlikely due partly to the level of scrutiny that pubic figures are under both past history, whilst they are in office and lasting for the rest of their lives, and the fact that politicians are not in it for the money, and the fact that any disaster in the making has almost always got multiple concurrent enabling factors - the chances of us being in this situation just because a handful of blokes bunged some cash into Johnson's pockets is extremely slim and too simplistic an explanation.

ListeningQuietly · 19/12/2020 15:35

Johnson is the puppet leader.
His former boss was right about him.

The funders and promoters of Brexit want instability and weakness as then they can restrict the rights and incomes of the populace to enrich and empower themselves.

ListeningQuietly · 19/12/2020 15:38

PS my list of funders and promoters is headed by
Vladimir Putin
with support from Robert Mercer and Roger Stone
and they are playing folks like Aaron Banks and Crispin Odey

the same people who promoted Trump to destabilise the USA
as instability allows vultures to take profits

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 15:43

@Applesonthelawn

I don't think you can know that.. You're right I can't know it, but I do believe it's unlikely due partly to the level of scrutiny that pubic figures are under both past history, whilst they are in office and lasting for the rest of their lives, and the fact that politicians are not in it for the money, and the fact that any disaster in the making has almost always got multiple concurrent enabling factors - the chances of us being in this situation just because a handful of blokes bunged some cash into Johnson's pockets is extremely slim and too simplistic an explanation.
Then you are asking your assumption on a belief. Many people get away with making massive amounts of money in a crisis. William Rees-Mogg wrote a book on it. It factually has happened. Look at this guy:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Eisman

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 15:46

Too simplistic an explanation? No, it's entirely logical and plausible. Why else are billionaires, worh offshore funds in tax havens so desperate to Leave the EU? Let's be logical: I doubt it is because they care about immigration or fish. They probably spend barely any time in the UK.

Applesonthelawn · 19/12/2020 15:46

and betting against the economy.
I wouldn't use that phrase in relation to the GFC although it's complicated. I am sure it started as normal position taking. They weren't really disaster capitalists - they were people who identified a problem that had been enabled by a whole string of deficiencies that were nothing to do with them. Didn't they even try to alert people? I had significant issue with the many others who did share blame, none of whom were ever really punished because they didn't benefit, i.e. it was incompetence rather than intent (as most disasters are).

Applesonthelawn · 19/12/2020 15:51

OK Woah have it your way - it makes not the blindest bit of difference. 🤷
William Rees Mogg wrote a book so it must be true. 😂

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 15:54

But as long as the mega wealthy get richer who cares if a few people lose jobs and their homes, right? No one was really punished after the crash.

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 15:57

So what does Aaron Banks set to gain from Brexit? Be logical. Why would he bung millions to Vote Leave?

It is TRUE, because as I can prove, people do profit off the back of crisis. Are you saying it doesn't happen??

ListeningQuietly · 19/12/2020 15:59

Aaron Banks was a front man for Putin.
He was never able to explain where he's got the money from ....
it was not extracted from his businesses

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 16:00

If you think disaster capitalism doesn't ever happen, it is up to you to provide evidence to back up your claims. But I have already given a link to someone who did make a fortune of the back of a disaster. Whether a crisis is manufactured or not is a moot point (Brexit was deliberately manufactured - no one gave a thought to the EU before 2016) But in any case, people with money will find a way to make more money when the shit hits the fan.

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 16:01

@ListeningQuietly

Aaron Banks was a front man for Putin. He was never able to explain where he's got the money from .... it was not extracted from his businesses
He is a shady fucker at best.
ListeningQuietly · 19/12/2020 16:06

THIS
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained
is where Brexit came from

and the funders plan to cash in on the instability

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 16:12

They are all slimy fuckers Listening. No doubt certain posters will come on to defend them.

AgeLikeWine · 19/12/2020 16:19

Being as objective and generous to the government as I can, their motivation is to deliver on the Leave campaign’s key promises : to take back control of our laws, our money and our borders. This inevitably means a hard Brexit. They also want to prevent a split in the Tory party and Johnson, having finally achieved his life’s ambition to become PM, is desperate to avoid being yet another Tory leader to lose their job over Europe.

The EU is playing hardball because they need to demonstrate that being outside the EU is more difficult and less prosperous than being a member state. If you choose to leave the club, and stop paying your subscription, you cannot enjoy the benefits of membership. Britain has to be, and will be, punished for its decision to leave.

JuliaDomna · 19/12/2020 16:21

First some background.

Tories supporting leaving the EU and No Deal have been part of the Tory Party since the days of Margaret Thatcher. Their influences are Patrick Minford and Friedrich von Hayek who argued for neo liberal economics including low taxation, light touch regulation and the small state. They believe in the opposite of the Welfare State, that it is the responsibility of individual to fund healthcare, education etc. The function of the state is to provide the right conditions for businesses to flourish , law and order and defence etc. Very much the American model. One of their early proponents was Keith Joseph who was a strong influence on Margaret Thatcher. Margaret Thatcher's politics represented a move away from the post war consensus on economics and the welfare state. She began these economic reforms but she did believe in the Rule of Law (unlike the current Government with its reforms to the power of the judiciary and Supreme Court) and the Common Market, It was she who pushed for the single market.

The Tory Party was split in 2 with the old style conservatives , nicknamed the Wets and the more neo liberal types like Michael Portillo and John Redwood etc. There was always a balance until the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties leading to greater integration of the EU. The neo liberal Tories started to flex their muscles and began the long campaign to leave the EU. They were aided and abetted by venture capitalists, people like James Dyson, Tim Martin and Jim Ratcliffe all of whom dislike our current labour laws. They want to hire and fire at will and dislike the so called 'red tape' (although it doesn't seem to have put Ratcliffe off that much as he is locating his car manufacturing in France).

So back to No Deal. Many Tories want No Deal because it will free them up to change laws on employment, the environment, food standards etc. I am not sure the Government actually want a deal that much. If you want to know what their plans are read Britannia Unchained written by Patel, Raab, Truss, Kwarteng, Skidmore

link.springer.com/book/10.1057/9781137032249

This is what they think of British workers

The book asserts that the UK has a "bloated state, high taxes and excessive regulation". It then says:

The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.

I think we are in for a turbulent time. It will take many years to change the focus of the economy. Margaret Thatcher caused a lot of pain the 1980s with her deindustrialisation policies leaving many areas in the North, Scotland and Wales decimated, feeding the north/south divide. I think it is ironic that many of these areas voted for more of the same by supporting Brexit. In the end we will be more like the US.

Kendodd · 19/12/2020 17:54

@AgeLikeWine

I don't understand what you mean by this.

The EU is playing hardball because they need to demonstrate that being outside the EU is more difficult and less prosperous than being a member state. If you choose to leave the club, and stop paying your subscription, you cannot enjoy the benefits of membership. Britain has to be, and will be, punished for its decision to leave.

Do you mean you think the EU is punishing us by not letting us have the benefits of membership without, us being members? How is that unfair to us or a punishment? We wanted out and voted NOT to enjoy the benefits of being in the EU, they didn't boot us out.

Kendodd · 19/12/2020 17:58

Also, being outside the EU IS going to be more difficult and less prosperous than being inside. Our own government prediction tell us that. We chose this path for ourselves.

Woahisme · 19/12/2020 18:02

If you choose to leave the club, and stop paying your subscription, you cannot enjoy the benefits of membership well obviously Wine

As an aside, where do people get this rhetoric from that consequence = punishment. They are not the same thing. If the consequence feels like a punishment, maybe reflect on why that is.