Will Brexit delay the vaccine supplies?

[MrsMigginsMate]

Not sure if this should be in Brexit or Coronavirus....

What does everyone think will happen to vaccine supplies after Brexit? The Pfizer one isn't manufactured here, do we think there will be delays? Are there ways around the potential shipping delays?

Surely it will need specialist transport and handling. Regular ways of importing frozen goods won't be able to deal with stuff that needs to be kept at minus 80.

It won't come by air. It has to be kept at -75c. Do you have any idea how heavy those containers are?

I don't know, how heavy?
I'd guess no heavier than an APC and C130s can carry those.

And I'm sure they can rustle up some Customs Officers!!

It won't come by air. It has to be kept at -75c. Do you have any idea how heavy those containers are?

I work for a pharma company. We ship everything by air.

Surely it will need specialist transport and handling. Regular ways of importing frozen goods won't be able to deal with stuff that needs to be kept at minus 80

Military fly with intact cold chain all the time. How do you think the field hospitals in Afghanistan and Iraq were supplied? This is just a bigger fridge

Well at the moment the key concern is over reliance on 3M as main supplier of FPP3s. They’re struggling to get diversity in supply chain and that’s a very significant risk ahead and beyond Brexit.

Vaccines are quite problematic as yet because of a number of factors but certainly Brexit is one risk that isn’t yet mitigated fully.
Yes there will be almost certainly be problems. Yes supplies may become unusable in a lorry parked in Farage’s Garage in Kent.
That will add to a number of other issues including better procurement from block trading.

Military fly with intact cold chain all the time. How do you think the field hospitals in Afghanistan and Iraq were supplied? This is just a bigger fridge

At minus 80?

Yes some will come by airfreight but that won’t have capacity to get it all here in sufficient quantities. Road transit is planned.

I really do hope that there is a plan and it all goes to plan. Sadly though, expect this government will find a way to fuck it up.

if there is some sort of deal it will probably take into account vaccine supply

Europe did it's own deal about the supply of potential vaccines months ago. The UK was offered the chance to come in on it. The UK said no. I doubt Europe will therefore give a shit what our vaccine supply chain is. When you refuse to play nicely with the other kids, despite that nasty pandemic affecting you all, you shouldn't be surprised if the other kids stop playing with you.

Well we won’t get as much of the American vaccine as we would have done had we been in the EU. We’ve bought enough doses for 2.5million people. The EU had pre-purchased much larger quantities of it prior to approval and will dish it out between their members. I believe we had the option to join the EU vaccine purchase scheme but opted out.

TBH I have no doubt that the UK forces could run a -80c cold chain
BUT
COVID vaccine is not the only medicine that will be nadgered by Brexit

anti inflammatories
steroids
antibiotics
radioactive isotopes
ibuprofen

will all be impacted by the Farage Garage
and repurposing the forces to deliver to Superdrug is possibly not a long term strategy

At minus 80?

Actually done, probably not: I can't think off hand of anything that would have needed it.

Able to do: yes - they can handle big heavy specialist items (the fridges), ok,sorts of hazardous cargo each with its own SOPs; plus have current experience in maintaining cold chain and have uninterrupted power supplies.

Any reason to think they can't do it?

(think 1 cubic metre per box)

I think less than 0.3 per box - but even at 140 metres a day, it would hardly need its own terminal to handle it.

That's maybe one medium-sized cargo plane, a couple of double deck trailers or about 20 Sprinter vans full a night.

How is the flu vaccine going I wonder. That's the start of the rollout and a benchmark. Maybe it is fine I dunno.

I read a thread on Twitter the other day that was saying it's not necessarily getting it into the country that's an issue, it's whether it's approved by the EMA before we leave transition or not. If it's not, it will need to be licensed by us separately and we will be a small minnow market wise - they will concentrate on EMA and FDA approval first and we may have to wait.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-03/ups-readies-freezer-farms-to-ship-virus-vaccine-if-we-get-one

@FatCatThinCat

Military fly with intact cold chain all the time. How do you think the field hospitals in Afghanistan and Iraq were supplied? This is just a bigger fridge

At minus 80?

Cold chain medicines, including those at ultra low temperatures, can be transported in insulated shippers with dry ice. No power source needed, and they are not particularly heavy.

wiseup
Standard cold chain ( -18C) works well on cryo packaging)
geek alert, used to transporting dry ice

The Pfizer vaccine needs -80C
which CANNOT be sustained by insulation alone
so the cold chain would need to be powered

( its the same problem that the early Polio cold chain had - without powr at every step, you lose the vaccine)

@ListeningQuietly

wiseup Standard cold chain ( -18C) works well on cryo packaging) geek alert, used to transporting dry ice

The Pfizer vaccine needs -80C
which CANNOT be sustained by insulation alone
so the cold chain would need to be powered

( its the same problem that the early Polio cold chain had - without powr at every step, you lose the vaccine)

Some new ATMPs are received in -80 shippers containing dry ice. The technology exists and is in use.

Also:
www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/10/pfizer-and-biontechs-vaccine-poses-global-logistics-challenge?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

That’s not to say the whole thing won’t be a logistical horror show with Brexit adding a whole extra layer of complexity...

I'm sure it CAN be done
but the fact that the UK is forcing these hurdles into the logistical network is ferkin stupid

It’s not the UK driving this shipping method - it’s Pfizer. It will happen, and may very well turn out to be stupid, especially with Johnson’s cronies involved in the logistics once the stuff is in the country.

More about the fancy shippers is here:

www.wsj.com/articles/pfizer-sets-up-its-biggest-ever-vaccination-distribution-campaign-11603272614

Janet
The UK is adding Customs clearance into a European network that has not had it since 1989
that is ENTIRELY don to Brexit not COVID

I don’t know what you’re arguing with me about. Brexit is the worst thing that has happened to this country since the 2nd world war, and the early part of next year will be a complete shit show. Vaccine logistics at low temperature are... challenging at the best of times. Pfizer really do have a means of transporting their vaccine at ultra low temperatures without an external power source.

??

I'm not arguing with you.

The OP asked a question
I tried to answer it and put it in the context of the impact on all medicines

Brexit is a shitshow

and the US vaccine that can be transported at -18 may turn out to be the better bet