Blink or No Deal Poll

[TatianaBis]

Interested to know which way Brexiter forumers think it will go:

Last minute U-turn + skeleton EU deal or No Deal.

@OchonAgusOchonO

No deal. The EU will not blink. They have a lot less to lose than the UK.

This.

Squishy "Boris will likely be on holiday and unavailable for the weeks directly following the end of the transition."

Sadly, you'll probably be right.

Not sure - but I wouldn't rely on the narrative that Boris Johnson's government has made more u-turns than any other government this year. From a cursory look;

"Another day, another u-turn for [Irish] government."

www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40024091.html

"[Irish] Government u-turn on house party crackdown."

www.q102.ie/news/q102-news/government-u-turn-on-house-party-crackdown/

"Merkel wins surprise backing from Germany over EU [coronavirus] aid U-turn."

www.thelocal.de/20200526/merkel-wins-surprise-backing-from-germany-over-eu-aid-u-turn

"In U-turn, Germany backs Google and Apple on virus app."

www.dw.com/en/in-u-turn-germany-backs-google-and-apple-on-virus-app/a-53252223

Cummings and his backers have always wanted no deal.

The Russian side want it to stay no deal as that will leave us weak and pathetic and also slightly weaken the EU.

However, the disaster capitalists would probably like us to rejoin the EU soon after no deal, so they have time to buy up infrastructure on the cheap, but then it's value will increase massively as our economy recovers.

Don't know who has the most sway, particularly if Boris goes. Gove may also be a Cummings lackey, but I don't know if all the other contenders are.

And here’s Clav with a quick google.

Gove is Murdoch’s lackey too, unfortunately.

Cummings and his backers have always wanted no deal.

The Guardian a year ago;
"Deal or no deal? It’s not really up to Dominic Cummings."

"Cummings is also only one player. The idea that he pulls all the strings is lazy and wrong.The Brexit outcome depends on a tangled web of interests and influences beyond his control."

And here’s Clav with a quick google.

[quote Clavinova]Not sure - but I wouldn't rely on the narrative that Boris Johnson's government has made more u-turns than any other government this year. From a cursory look;

"Another day, another u-turn for [Irish] government."

www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40024091.html

"[Irish] Government u-turn on house party crackdown."

www.q102.ie/news/q102-news/government-u-turn-on-house-party-crackdown/

"Merkel wins surprise backing from Germany over EU [coronavirus] aid U-turn."

www.thelocal.de/20200526/merkel-wins-surprise-backing-from-germany-over-eu-aid-u-turn

"In U-turn, Germany backs Google and Apple on virus app."

www.dw.com/en/in-u-turn-germany-backs-google-and-apple-on-virus-app/a-53252223[/quote]
I have to say, I love the attempt to sidetrack and derail here. Nobody in this thread has claimed the UK government has made more U-turns than anyone else this year. But yet, in comes Clarinova to prove that the point nobody made is wrong. Even if anyone had made that claim, it would be scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of context.

As I say, it probably depends on who takes over from Boris when he's finally had enough of pretending to do any work.

Cummings is obviously Putin's lackey, as Gove is Cummings'. But there are others who would want our economy to actually get better after they've bought everything on the cheap, otherwise they don't actually get to cash in on it.

We're fucking ourselves over for the benefit of oligarchs, foreign powers, and disaster capitalists. Quite how thick the Gammonati are to still be cheering for it is beyond me...

OchonAgusOchonO
Nobody in this thread has claimed the UK government has made more U-turns than anyone else this year.

That's pretty much the narrative in the media at the moment - the title of the other thread started today is "Governing by U-Turn." Why has the op posted "Last minute U-turn" in this thread?

Even if anyone had made that claim, it would be scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of context.

I disagree, especially as I chose to look at Ireland and Germany.

Perhaps I should have posted something more relevant;
"Jacob Rees mogg's dad literally wrote a book about disaster capitalism."

Let's just ignore the squirrel-chucker shall we?

My money is on No Deal. Well, it would be if I was very very very very rich indeed.

No Deal has been the game-plan for a long time, because it will enrich a small number of white middle-aged men people who have a great deal of influence in the Tory party. Johnson has said this morning that no deal is a 'good outcome'. May told Trump years ago that Brexit was nothing more than 'Conservative Party politics'. It's all going just the way Johnson and his cronies want it.

Covid has actually been a wonderful distraction device for the govt. Imagine how much more hassle they'd have had over the 'oven-ready deal' (which they're just about to renege on) if we'd not all been worrying about a deadly virus for the last 6 months. We are now mere weeks away from no-dealing and the ensuing chaos will see blame being shifted fully onto a) Covid and b) the Nasty EU. It couldn't be more perfect for them.

Ordinary people of the UK are about to be sold down the river for the likes of Crispin Odey. If you're not scared, you're not paying attention.

@Clavinova - That's pretty much the narrative in the media at the moment

That may be but it is not the topic of this thread.

the title of the other thread started today is "Governing by U-Turn."

Again, not this thread.

Why has the op posted "Last minute U-turn" in this thread?

I can't speak for them but I assume as stating you will not do something and then doing it could be described as a u-turn.

I disagree, especially as I chose to look at Ireland and Germany.

None of the stories are relevant to this topic. If you had bothered to read the articles, you would also see that some of your examples are not exactly u-turns.

Perhaps I should have posted something more relevant; "Jacob Rees mogg's dad literally wrote a book about disaster capitalism."

That does actually have relevance to this topic as it is talking about reasons why the UK government might continue to work towards a no deal scenario.

No deal. I honestly don't think Johnson ever wanted one. Whether there will be one in future remains to be seen.

What is it that's causing so many delays anyway?

OchonAgusOchonO
For something that's not relevant to the thread you have wasted far too much of your time on it.

@Clavinova - For something that's not relevant to the thread you have wasted far too much of your time on it.

I'm a fast typist. No time at all.

OchonAgusOchonO
I suspect it will also help to achieve an independent Scotland.

Why do you have to bring Scottish nationalism into everything? Hardly relevant to the op's question.

OchonAgusOchonO
I'm a fast typist. No time at all.

You said you had read the articles in my links as well - what a waste of your time.

@Clavinova

OchonAgusOchonO I suspect it will also help to achieve an independent Scotland.

Why do you have to bring Scottish nationalism into everything? Hardly relevant to the op's question.

I would be most impressed if you can find any other post I've ever written where I've brought up Scottish nationalism .

The question in the op is: Last minute U-turn + skeleton EU deal or No Deal

I'm reckoning no deal combined with united Ireland + independent Scotland. It's a variant on No Deal and therefore relevant to the question asked.

I eagerly await your next non sequitur

@Clavinova

OchonAgusOchonO I'm a fast typist. No time at all.

You said you had read the articles in my links as well - what a waste of your time.

No I didn't. I was familiar with both the Irish stories and a quick glance showed the lack of relevance of the German ones.

Lovely that you're so concerned about my time though.

OchonAgusOchonO
You obviously found my links diverting otherwise you wouldn't have read them. Happy to be of service.

I have to go out now but staying on topic this time;

"Debunking the myths of Brexit ‘disaster capitalism’

"Independent economist Julian Jessop debunks the myths that Brexit policy is being driven by a cabal of hedge funds, dodgy corporations and tax avoiders. These myths turn out to be no more than vague insinuations and desperate mudslinging in the hope that some might stick."

"The proliferation of daft conspiracy theories has been one of the more depressing features of the painful process of leaving the EU. You might expect this nonsense from notoriously sloppy journalists, ‘fake news’ websites, or desperate politicians. But even some otherwise fairly sensible people have claimed that government policy is being driven by a cabal of hedge funds, dodgy corporations and tax avoiders who stand to benefit from a ‘hard Brexit’."

"One of the worst recent examples can be blamed on Byline Media, which ‘revealed’ that some donors to Boris Johnson’s leadership campaign and/or to Vote Leave have links to hedge funds with short positions in UK equities. Fortunately, this story has now been thoroughly debunked by every serious financial commentator who has looked at it, including Frances Coppola, Chris Dillow, Juliet Samuel, and the team at the FT."

briefingsforbritain.co.uk/debunking-the-myths-of-brexit-disaster-capitalism/

FullFact
"We think there's a big error in that viral article about hedge funds and Brexit."
fullfact.org/economy/short-positions/

Time for a quick post.
the lack of relevance of the German ones

"a stunning U-turn" from Germany/the veteran leader, set to end her political career next year"^ is relevant - let's hope Angela Merkel wants to end her career having succeeded in persuading the other leaders they would actually like to make some further concessions to the UK in order to get a deal.

Briefings for Britain? The pro-Brexit website that predicts the UK will be the fastest-growing Western economy over the next 5 years, mainly because of all the emigrants from Hong Kong that are coming our way? Written by a 'private investor', no less.

Desperate times do indeed call for desperate measures, don't they @Clavinova?

@Clavinova

Time for a quick post. the lack of relevance of the German ones

"a stunning U-turn" from Germany/the veteran leader, set to end her political career next year"^ is relevant - let's hope Angela Merkel wants to end her career having succeeded in persuading the other leaders they would actually like to make some further concessions to the UK in order to get a deal.

You decided to read first 1.5 paragraphs of the article? Well done.

Maybe try reading the whole article before posting links in future as it's still not relevant to this thread.

@Mistigri

No deal this year, but there will eventually be one. The no dealers have never understood that no deal isn't a stable end point.

Thank you for that sensible and reassuring thought. Assuming there’s anything left, or anyone to pull things together after the initial disruption of course, but reassuring nonetheless.

It's reassuring at all, or it shouldn't be. Negotiating post no-deal will be negotiation from a position of self-inflicted weakness, quite possibly while having to manage chaotic outcomes as a result of a toxic interaction between the Brexit cliff-edge and ongoing coronavirus impacts.

There is no way I would consider being in the U.K. in January and I'll be trying to persuade my mum to take a short holiday on the sane side of the channel.