What EU 'Red Tape'?

[KenDodd]

www.ft.com/content/4b0d8310-4353-11ea-abea-0c7a29cd66fe?fbclid=IwAR1xxTsclXDC16rGWIVRGrZK15gffxM7-CmSEod22vN_XsLSx5hNs2KM4jE

So, the chancellor in his wisdom has asked the public to tell him what EU 'red tape' we want to get rid of (while at the same time massively increasing 'red tape' for us all). Am I right in thinking that this so called red tape is -
Workers rights
Environmental protection
H & S
Food standards
Etc.

Would I be unrecognisable to encourage you all to write to him and tell him exactly what 'red tape' we absolutely must KEEP. I bet plenty of interested parties will be writing to him demanding we get rid of as much of the above as possible so they can exploit staff (even more than they do) sell us unsafe shit and pollute the planet without a care.

I'll be writing. Anyone else have any ideas? Equally interested to hear from people who do want to get rid of 'red tape'

75% volume limit on phones

No one banned them or said they couldn't be bought

Quite clearly says they were (3 times in one paragraph) - on the EU's own website:

"help producers to meet consumer expectations and keep unsatisfactory products off the market."

"fruits and vegetables with non-conventional shapes and sizes being excluded from the market."

"formerly banned"

Which can be turned off.

Yes, but not bendy bananas or curvey cucumbers. Only extra class ones were required to fully comply with shape. Class 1 and 2 were allowed to have defects of shape.

The rule stated, abnormal curvature, but didn't give guidelines on what would be considered.

No one banned bendy bananas or curvy cucumbers.

expand your reading from your frantic searches to confirm your bias.

Ah see you've read that "formerly banned " and took it to mean ones that were curvey.

A bit more reading shows you were wrong.

Again, as on most occasions.

expand your reading

I did - the paragraph starts;

"Return of the curvy cucumber" ...

Class 1 and 2 were allowed to have defects of shape

July 2008;
"A majority of EU member states, including Britain and Ireland, have voted to reform rules like EC Commission Regulation No 2257/94, which caused international ridicule by stating that all bananas must be "free of abnormal curvature" and at least 14 cm in length."

"Imperfectly-shaped fruit and vegetables may now be back on supermarket shelves by 2009."

"France, Italy, Spain and Greece opposed the reforms and were accused by officials of unfairly seeking to protect the interests of their farmers."

"Speaking before the vote, [Mariann Fischer Boel, the European agriculture commissioner] said the rules were outdated and especially inappropriate at the time of a world food shortages."
... "In this era of high prices and growing demand, it makes no sense to throw (misshapen fruit and vegetables) away or destroy them.It shouldn't be the EU's job to regulate these things."

"Produce that does not meet the minimum standards can not at present be sold as second-class, meaning many edible items are thrown away by farmers."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2453204/Bent-banana-and-curved-cucumber-rules-dropped-by-EU.html

Craven copy and paste from the Telegraph there. Which of course doesn't report the full story, not "all bananas" at all.

Free of abnormal curvature (only applicable to the extra class) didn't mean straight, nor did it mean class A or B had to be perfect.

Poor clav, always convinced by every source she lays her hands on. Never applies critical thinking.

The EU were cortect to remove them, but had been asked to implement rules at the start of the single market to ensure classification was the same across the entire EU (as one would need with imports).

But no there was never a ban on bendy bananas

"not all bananas" at all didn't mean straight

I didn't say it did.

'bendy cucumbers' this time - European Commission website again 2009:

"The return of the bendy cucumber:'wonky' fruit and vegetables back on sale from 1st July."

"European Union rules governing the size and shape of many fruit and vegetables will cease to exist tomorrow when specific marketing standards for 26 types of fruit and vegetables are repealed.The Commission's initiative to get rid of these standards is a major element in its ongoing efforts to streamline and simplify EU rules and cut red tape" ...

"Member States could for the first time allow shops to sell products that don't respect the standards, as long as they are labelled to distinguish them from 'extra', 'class I' and 'class II' fruit."

"July 1st marks the return to our shelves of the curved cucumber and the knobbly carrot," said Mariann Fischer Boel, Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development."

"More seriously, this is a concrete example of our drive to cut unnecessary red tape." "We don't need to regulate this sort of thing at EU level. It is far better to leave it to market operators."

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_1059

Yes, but that doesn't say what you think it does.

There were regulations on what could be sold directly to consumers and on classifications of what lables it could be sold under. This allows the sale of goods that don't meet these classifications.

However bendy bananas and curvey cucumbers were never banned as you claimed and you haven't presented evidence to show that they were. All you've done is present evidence that the EU does find ways to cut red tape.

This press release and its headline is apparently enough for you

"As a result the famous "curvy cucumbers", formerly banned, can now be legally put on the market."

Doesn't say that in the article you linked to from the EU.

Bit of digging finds classifications are down to the UN.m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/christian-friis-bach/cucumbers-blame-the-un_b_10569052.html

Opps clav wrong again.

Although its typical of you to pick the first thing that confirms your bias, whether it be decade old articles, or ones where you have merely read the headline

PS you did realise the restrictions on fruit and veg (not classifications) were reduced in 2009?

Doesn't say that in the article you linked to from the EU

Yes it does - in my first link to the EU Commission - the article you claimed I had misread;

"The specific standard for cucumbers, for example, was withdrawn. As a result the famous "curvy cucumbers", formerly banned, can now be legally put on the market."

ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/MEMO_13_833

So not in the one you copied and pasted out?

Curvey cucumbers weren't banned, you couldn't sell them as certain classes for human consumption.

Did you read the article I linked to? Nope?

Doesn't surprise me. Although in the bits about curvey cucumbers you have quoted, come from press releases not actual laws or regulations.

Bit of digging finds classifications are down to the UN.

The Huffington Post article is from 2016;

"First and foremost, it is not the European Union that has developed the current standard for cucumbers.It is the UN."

We are not discussing current [2016] standards for cucumbers - my links are from 2008, 2009 and 2013.

So not in the one you copied and pasted out?

I copied and pasted out the whole paragraph - it's not a very long thread - you can easily check.

you couldn't sell them as certain classes for human consumption

You could feed them to the pigs then?

You mean the standards that were abolished in 2009?

The ones which allowed curvature of cucumbers but specified what they could be to be a certain class? The abolishment of which has been called mostly symbolic and has made little difference to what is available?

The ones which didn't ban curved cucumbers or bananas, but did make sure that they were classified. "Abnormal" ones could be sold for other processing but the majority sold on the market anyway met the regulation.

So on a thread about EU red tape being removed you mentioned stuff that was removed over a decade ago?

Ok, so sounds like the EU has already done a really great job getting rid of red tape. So what is the red tape Sajid Javid wants to know about? Could it be red tape protecting the environment or trying to prevent tax avoidance, something like that maybe?

You quoted press releases, and then repeated a quote after quoting something else.

As said, curvey cucumbers were never banned, but abnormally curved ones were (but for reasons of packing, storage, freshness when sold). The actual regulation change has made naff all difference to the cucumbers available to consumers, and hasn't in the more than a decade since they were changed.

But yeah repeat and urban myth, then c and p loads to prove it, despite the c and p actually agreeing with me.

Its always fun educating you clav.

You mean the standards that were abolished in 2009?
Yes of course - as per my links.

So on a thread about EU red tape being removed you mentioned stuff that was removed over a decade ago?

Only because it was a well known saga.

Dates don't seem to matter to Led By Donkeys or the People's Vote Campaign etc; quotes from 1998, 2002...

But yeah repeat and urban myth

You mean the Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development didn't know what she was talking about?

I wouldnt talk about dates with your track record

And yes it was a well known saga, and your attitude to it is typical of the ill infotmed way it was reported here.

Bendy bananas and curvey cucumbers were always available, just not under certain classifications or if they didn't fit regulation.

Removing the regulation has not meant that we now have lots more of these products in the shops either. So it was mostly made up bollocks, prepared for a hysterical and willing to believe audience.

Its used as a figure of speech. Curvey cucumbers were available as part of EU regulations. Did you not see the "more seriously" bit next?

Aww poor clav.

Looks like the one thing you two agree on is the the EU has already reduced red tape.

Hooray for the EU!

Fuck me this is dull though.

The one thing you can think of didn't do what you think it did, and was repealed over a decade ago?

Good example. Well done.