What's good about the EU, and what's not good? And most importantly...

[BercowsFlyingFlamingo]

...what impact do these things have on your life?

I don't want to get into a leave v remain debate, I'm interested to know what people think are the good points and not so good points of the EU regardless of how you voted. In fact, you don't need to say how you voted.

My own knowledge of the EU was very limited I'm ashamed to say until I joined mumsnet and started doing a lot of googling.

From my own limited knowledge I was aware of the EU working time directive which I signed to opt out of as a nurse and wish I hadn't as finishing work at 9.15pm and being back there at 7am wasn't fun. I was aware of fantastic research between UK and EU universities, medical research, university and medical staff giving us the benefit of their experience and expertise, cleaner beaches, safety standards (although I like the kite mark of old), food standards (I was pissed off that the EU wouldn't allow proper Mountain Dew to be sold here), and probably a few others. Not much really.

Growing up I'd heard complaints of "red tape" but nothing as to what this was. Complaints of Europe making us sell things in grams and kilos. The infamous bendy bananas and imperfect fruit and veg. I didn't pay much attention to these though.

I've discovered far more in the last year, since I became interested in politics, and doubt I'm the only one who had such limited knowledge hence my interest in finding out what others think the EU is all about.

Allergens. Food has to be labelled. Pretty important when your child might die if they eat the wrong thing.

I was once in this field so I know I’m afraid.

It varies from county’s but there is definitely lack of standards in some of the eu countries.

France zoos for example are shocking.

Unfortunately, I'm not in favour of what has morphed into the EU, i.e. free/unlimited movement of people, ECJ, closer political integration, single currency, proposals for Euro army, etc.

I don't understand this. You're not in favour so you decided it would be better if we didn't have a say? The "Euro army" always gets trotted out by leavers as it sounds scary but it's about greater collaboration between countries at the end of the day. I think that it is pretty reassuring considering we don't actually have the resources to match Russia, USA, China etc! Of course, we could also have remained in the EU and voted against things we disagreed with instead of stomping off....but then again if there is something we have learnt from Brexit it's that Brits have no idea how to negotiate.

The free movement of labour is probably the biggest plus side. People can move to where the work is and employers get a better choice of candidates.

The biggest negatives are the OTT harmonisation policies. It would be fine if the EU kept harmonisation to a minimum but they did go a bit mental after implementing the single market. The excessive regulation can cause a lot of issues like the current shortage of medicines resulting from recent (and many would argue completely unnecessary) changes in EU licensing regimes.

There are a lot of benefits but also a lot of inconveniences.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42340677

Cookies

Every bloody site repeatedly telling you they track cookes and having to click yes to agree to it.

Repeatedly - even if you've done it already but if you upgrade your OS or change your browser, you get asked again.

one of the reasons I often use a non EU VPN.

People do realise that we’re not going to just have a bonfire of these rules as soon as we leave don’t they?

We were instrumental in the creation of many and even those we might like to avoid we won’t be able to in many instance because we still need to trade and deal with the EU.

As for ‘EU accounts are never audited’ I can’t believe that is still doing the rounds

C

Consumer protection-improved consumer protection and better product safety. Especially cosmetic products, and toys.

Excellent Cookie Protection a piece of privacy legislation to benefit individuals. This requires websites to get * Consent before your information is retrieved or stored on any smartphone or tablet etc. Consumer protection to protect online privacy giving consumers warnings about how information about them is Collected and used online , and giving a c*hoice as to whether to allow it or not.

The low regulation system for companies that the ERG want as part of their revolution means many protections disappear. Unlabelled flammable children's nighties and spam overload anyone?

"Excellent Cookie Protection a piece of privacy legislation to benefit individuals. This requires websites to get ** Consent before your information is retrieved or stored on any smartphone or tablet etc. Consumer protection to protect online privacy giving consumers warnings about how information about them is Collected and used online , and giving a choice as to whether to allow it or not.
"

If you think cookie pop ups are excellent, you need your bumps felt (as my dear mother would say).

You can control your own cookies in you browser settings. Better for everyone just to assume they are there and block them if they so wish.

Cookies is the one where when you go to a website a big "cookie walL" comes up and tells you you can't read the website unless you accept a load of tracking cookies (European court has now said pre-ticked boxes illegal like for email marketing, but it's EU law that's led to it. I find it massively frustrating when I am researching something and because I can't be bothered to/won't accept cookies, I can't read the websites I need. And if you do a blanket block, you can't keep passwords and the like pre-filled.

Money laundering affects me because it's tick box, and not risk-based. All the ID requirements if you want to open a bank account or use an estate agent or solicitor. It's never stopped any organised crime in the history of the world, but inconveniences the little person. Also now the new security requirements for online banking (and later, buying online, fortunately delayed by 18 months). The fraudsters have already got round them.

I voted remain by the way. I firmly believe leaving the EU is the most stupid thing in the history of the UK. But that doesn't mean the EU is perfect and the things above are the things I don't agree with.

while there are annoying aspects to the EU, you have to appreciate the aims which are generally to improve things as far as possible for the majority. When you have MEPs, sich as Farage (no and in the past' who are hell bent on being an arse, and there ill be some from each country you have to go with the flow a bit and accept that perfection is impossible. Red tape for things like animal movements and engineering standards would be necessary anyway if you want to trade across borders. Having them harmonised is sensible so a customer in any other part of the EU can be assured that whatever they buy, is what they ordered.
I have mentioned the bendy bananas case several times before. It boiled down to banana growers spraying banana crops while the workers were still among the trees. The insecticide used is similar to Zyclon B, made infamous by the Nazis. Obviously a lower dose rate but still causing severe health problems leading to death among the workers. As part of the process to sort this out, bananas had to be classified so their curvature and size had to be enumerated.
You could reconfigure this story so that for example the rules should be that a maximum of 1 worker at a BMW plant in the UK can be maimed in a day. What price 'red tape'.
I believe it is illegal to stab people in the UK. This is not stopping it happening. Just look at each days news headlines.

I like the freedom of movement the EU offers and the opportunities to live, travel, study and work abroad. I've definitely benefited from this as I have lived and worked in 3 EU countries.

But I do think the EU lacks some transparency and it has become too complex for the general public to understand what it does. The powers of the EU are so wide reaching that I doubt there are many people out there who fully understand the way the EU impacts on all aspects of our lives.
I also don't like the idea of a single EU currency. We have seen the impact this has during times of recession and I don't think this will be the last time that countries need bailing out.
In many ways I think the EU likes to adapt a one size fits all policy for members and fails to recoginse the diversity among the member states and how damaging a one size fits all policy can be for all countries concerned.

As the EU is not a totalitarian regime there will always be an issue with local interpretation of some of the 'rules' and as I said before, every country has it's own veto and has to ratify any EU proposal. Some countries are more lax about this and some not only take the EU proposals on board but make them tougher.
Fom is not actually as 'free' as it sounds in many EU countries. You have to meet certain requirements before you can make any claims on health or welfare services. Famously the Blair government failed to instigate any form of restriction on immigration and worse still, did not support local councils with improved services, extra school provision etc. Lessons have not been learned and there have been no attempts to rectify localised problems.
A sudden influx of people with no corresponding adjustments to the needs of ALL, is a problem the world over. Whether it is supplies of water or electricity, people need 'infrastructure'.

The EU is a big enough trading bloc to stand up to the USA and Russia and China

therefore being part of it is better than being isolated and small

Dive in the pound**

The UK economy was the fifth strongest in the world. It’s already dropped to seventh place. The pound has taken a massive dive in 2016 aster the ref and has fallen further. The government’s own forecasts unequivocally confirm that every Brexit option is shit for the UK economy.

I like being part of a trading block and collaboration on science, research.
I'm neutral about the right to work elsewhere - I've worked in three EU countries and two non-EU countries and think you get moved around by your firm if your services and skills are needed somewhere.

I'm anti EU. I hate the tit-for-tat about it, the horse trading. See Sylvie Goulard story this weekend - okay I'm glad the EC actually rejected a commissioner because that's usually just rubber stamping (another thing I dislike) but it was clearly motivated by revenge. And I worked for many years on EU legislation (off and on) and it was always about country A promising to allow something that country B wanted in the legislation if country A also got something they wanted. It's a ridiculous way to draft legislation. And the construct of the Euro - monetary union without political union - so Germany has a huge advantage of the currency being weaker than their economy warrants, but a disadvantage in the interest rates eating into the savings of their older generations so that the southern states can continue to service their debt. The lack of transparency about that will lead to an increase in populism. The fact the southern states can't devalue to become more competitive. The unsettled target balances, set to get worse now QE has been restarted, not included in the debt ratios. And all that virtue signalling about being a rules based system when von der Leyen herself said after the PIIGs crisis that they had to break every rule in the book to keep the euro afloat.

The EU as an organisation is not a true democracy. Basically all we do is elect the MEPs and it’s they who elect the president - this is frightening when you consider the scale of the EU’s budget in terms of impact to the individual tax payer. There is also the point to be made that net contributers such as Germany and the UK have the same decision making power as net utilisers such as Italy which is unfair. The EU needs proportional representation based on the US model whereby the size of your contribution impacts how much your vote counts.

Basically all we do is elect the MEPs and it’s they who elect the president
How does Whitehall work ?

this is frightening when you consider the scale of the EU’s budget in terms of impact to the individual tax payer
How much is the EU budget as a % of the whole UK budget?

The EU needs proportional representation based on the US model whereby the size of your contribution impacts how much your vote counts.
The USA has Reverse proportional representation
Californian votes count for 1/50 of Montanan

I can do a complete alphabetical list ... but this old YouTube clip does it better (if the link works).

m.youtube.com/watch?v=jU6DAxiW8BA

The worst thing about the EU is the way they ignore their own rules when it suits them. I.e. they want the EU to continue to grow, so "bend" the entry rules so that weaker countries can join despite not actually complying with, say, financial rules. That's why some of the Southern European countries have struggled so much as their finances weren't aligned enough to join the single currency, yet the rules were bent so they could join, and they've been paying the price ever since (i.e. Greece, Cyprus etc). All because the EU leaders want the EU/Euro to grow! They should have stuck to their guns and kept the rules that they themselves imposed for the very reason of avoiding weaker countries joining when their finances weren't up to it.

As for preventing wars etc., the EU havn't been able to solve the divided Cyprus issue have they? There are still living families who've lost everything they owned when Turkey invaded and have to sit watching their own property from "temporary" accommodation, separated by a UN protection line. And yet, the EU have been talking with Turkey about them joining the EU, without a Cyprus solution being a pre-requisite of them joining!

Kazzyhoward
In any form of democracy, you get people who are abusive and engineer the situation to suit themselves.
Turkey is a very long way away from joining the EU, with matters liker human rights being a massive stumbling block.
Bending the rules a bit to allow some of the Southern countries to join is a 'necessary 'evil' and when you have governments who have 'lied' about their countries finances and ministers who will not apply suitibly robust measures to even the playing field, what can you do?
Look at the UK's Hammond, and Mr Carney who probably have got a very good grip on the UK's finances, but you have twat leavers and daily rag 'newspapers' branding them a traitor., based on the utterances of Bojo and Farage who have no fucking clue.