London is no longer an English city

[Leafyhouse]

Said by John Cleese (he of Monty Python fame), recently. Link to story is here:

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-48451384

What do other people think? I do see London's diversity as being its great strength, but maybe it's just because I live in the London bubble - and maybe the view from the rest of the country is utter horror that the capital seems to be becoming increasingly disconnected from the country. Both economically and culturally. Hence the Brexit vote - Remain in a sea of Leave.

What's the view from others?

Out of curiosity, what do people here think makes someone 'English'? I ask because although I was born in London, I was taken to Australia by my Aussie mum at just a few months' old and lived there till my early 20s. I then returned to live in London for over a decade, then moved away to live in various other locations in England. I do not consider myself to be English, but I feel British. Dual nationality as you might expect with Australia.

I found London to be exciting, multi-national and multi-cultural. I met people from all over the world during my student days. I've lived in a couple of other far smaller English cities but they are totally different to London. Not different better or worse, just different. Eventually I was glad to leave London as I hankered after the countryside (I'd been raised in the Aussie countryside).

Perhaps it has to do with where one is raised? As I was educated in Australia it has taken me a long time to lose the 'I'm Australian' feeling and eventually feel 'I'm British' (and no longer support Aussie teams when playing against England!). I'd say over 20 years to get to that point.

What do others think?

I live in London and have also never referred to the rest of the country as the provinces. I’ve never heard anyone from London say it either. I’ve only ever heard it said out loud by a nice lady that I met in the theatre who told me that she and her daughter were visiting London “from the provinces”. I assumed it was an odd countryside phrase.
In a sense, I suppose he has a point. London is politically totally out of step with the rest of England. I saw some joke memes after the Brexit referendum suggesting a new country of “ScotLond”. It was a joke but it’s very clear that, politically at least, London is more in line with Scotland than with the rest of England.
I’m personally in favour of becoming an independent city state.

I think it's sad to even have this debate. London has been one of the major trading ports of the world for centuries. It's always welcomed people from all over.

London is The world’s second financial center. A multi cultural diverse city. But hasnt it been always this way ?
Some parts of London are very “English” but some parts , central, look very international.

I partly agree with UrsulaPandress , I live in London , I’m not British, and I would say the majority of people working in shops and restaurants centrally , are foreigners.

I'm a Scot who has lived in England for 2/3 of my life. I still sound Scottish, and its the main part of my ethnicity. I'll never be English, I'm British. I have a UK passport.

Sabine, a lot of Scotland votes SNP because it has Scottish in the name. Its tribal. It certainly doesn't mean its anything like London politically.

I'm sorry but SNP voting is absolutely not tribal, that's the kind of shite that gets trotted out by the MSM. Along with the tired old anti English shite.

It suits the agenda of those who disagree with the SNP to make their voters look stupid (if you want to mention tribal voting have a look at the shitstorm that is Brexit and the Brexit party!) and their agenda to seem anti English.

Neither is true.

I think it's a real shame to be honest, I hate London and what it has become.

Pinkyy what has London become that you hate?

@nancy75 It has lost any feeling of being an English city. It's the capital of our country and yet feels like it's completely disconnected.

What does an English city feel like? I’m 44 & lives here my whole life, it’s never been thatched cottages & tea rooms. I’m my lifetime I would say London has improved massively

Out of curiosity, what do people here think makes someone 'English'?

I would say I’m English - I’m British, born in England to English parents, with no recent Scots/Welsh/Irish ancestry. So English, it feels like a default to me because there’s nothing different I could choose. I know my friend who was born & raised in England but to Indian parents, refers to herself as British Indian/Asian but doesn’t tend to say English, why’s that I don’t know.

London is not typically English, of course it’s not, it’s a world hub and all the better for it, I live in a row of 10 houses, I think 2 of us that I know of are British born (me, and my neighbour, who is black - no idea if he considers himself English or British, but he’s definitely a Londoner!), the rest that I know are Somali, Nigerian, Bangladeshi, Romanian and Turkish.

Thinking about it, it seems more common for tickboxed in forms to be ‘Black British’ ‘British Asian’ etc — you tend to get options like ‘White - English/Welsh/Scots; White - Irish; White - Other” but then “Black British; Black Other” (or split Caribbean/African for example) but not often the option to select Black and English/Scots/Welsh. Why is that? Why is it Black British not Black English? British is seen as the catch-all and English a ‘native’ segment within that? It’s plainly ridiculous, is it institutional racism (and therefore those of us who are white and haven’t had cause to notice it can easily blindly nod along with English=white without noticing the racism, because no-one is denying Britishness).

I'm surprised that people have to ask what makes a person English. Surely it's obvious. It's exactly the same as being Scottish, or from any other county in fact.

My friend grew up next door but one to John Cleese and has always said he was a miserable, mean man. Can add racist to that too.

London has been multi-cutural for decades, if not centuries. Look at the history of Brick lane for example. John Cheese is a well-known Brexiter who espouses his views from his home thousands of miles away in the Caribbean.

It is true to say that many of the typical "cockneys" have moved out, many different them my town where, if we're going to be making generalisations on this thread, they all vote for Nigel Farage and moan about immigrants with sentences that begin "I'm not racist but..."

manyof them

CrunchyCarrot I think when foreigners think of quintessentially English , they think of The English countryside. Quaint little villages.traditional pubs.

But I wouldn’t say London is not English, there are some sights and places that are very English and can only be found in London.

Pinkyy what makes up the feeling of being in an English city, that London doesn't have?

One thing I can't undestand is that London, despite being a melting pot of cultures, is one of the least tolerant places in the UK for LGBT individuals:

That’s because you didn’t understand the report you posted. It’s talking about children, not LGBT individuals.

Cockneys are those traditionally born within earshot of the bells of Bow.

@Manclife1 I was quoting a census and everybody read into it. Of course you can be black and 'English' however when half the population identity as being anything but British then London can't be an 'English' city anymore. Again, I've said nothing about whether it's a good or bad thing.

I’m was born in London as was all my family!! Fifty years later not one member of my extended family lives in London!! Most moved to Essex some are in Middlesex, and a few in Brighton area!! It really has been white flight over the last three/four decades!! I heard on one tv programme that really a city the size of Birmingham had left London the the last 25 years!! Mostly London whites!! I don’t get upset about this I still think it’s a wonderful city to visit with a melting pot of other cultures!! I must admit it did really upset my mum the last few years she was alive that it had change so much (96 when she passed around the time of the London Olympics) she had lived through the blitz’s and the change in the east end from the 1940’s to to the 2000 was just amazing but for her it was just to much she just missed the old days. For me I love to visit and be a tourist!! But I’m very please to get back to Scotland after a trip back down the London that international city!! But you will be lucky if you hear a English accent!!

One thing I can't undestand is that London, despite being a melting pot of cultures, is one of the least tolerant places in the UK for LGBT individuals:

That is absolute nonsense. Being gay (or non-white) hasnt been remarkable or commented on or an issue in London for a very, very long time. There will always be a minority of bigots (and racists) of course, anywhere, but London is not a place where its at the forefront. Do you really think people are less tolerant (or indeed care in the slightest) of LGBT people in Soho on a Friday night than in small towns in "the provinces?" come on.

I suspect you are talking more about the issues feminism has with the T part, and that is a nationwide concern. That report is also about LGBT children, not consenting adults, and I would hope most people would be concerned and less tolerant about adults sexualising children.

it depresses me that being not-white seems to mean I'm not English.

I'm a lifelong Londoner and I'm not sure where I fit in the box of stats, but I've only ever lived in England and don't speak any other languages.

I live and work in London and it’s true that many working in shops and restaurants are of foreign origin but they do all speak English.
I’ve never had to struggle to make myself understood ordering a coffee because the person serving me had a different first language.
A lot of white English people have moved out of London and definitely from my area but it’s not like they were forced out or anything. They moved for a better quality of life. Bigger houses for their money, more peace and quiet, maybe more white neighbours, whatever. It’s their choice.
But we need to people to work and live in London so if foreigners want to then surely that’s good thing?

London is a global city and has a diversity of cultures. That’s why I love living there. I couldn’t live anywhere where I was surrounded by Brexit voters, thanks. Plenty of English spoken btw.