What are your "alternative arrangements " to the backstop. Because

[bellinisurge]

...this is all about the backstop. The backstop is why we haven't got a Withdrawal Agreement through Parliament. Yet.

In my view, if we have to Leave, NI should be a special economic area with a "border in the sea", that is any customs checks happening before/at arrival on mainland Britain from NI. DUP hates this. I think it's an opportunity for them to define NI as separate to Ireland before the inevitable demographic change makes unification the likely course.

What's your idea?

I do not agree with a border in the sea. NI is part of the UK and should treated exactly the same way.

I do not believe we should break the GFA - it is criminal that it was not properly discussed or understood during the referendum campaign.

So no to WA and no to No Deal

So my idea is revoke

Revoke, Remain, Reform.
I was on the march yesterday so currently armed with a few snappy slogans.

We can’t have a border in the sea as it will breach the GFA. Have no answers to the problem other than revoke.

Not sure how a border in the sea breaches GFA but happy to learn.

A 'border in the sea' does not 'break' the Belfast Agreement (GFA).
Staying in the SM and CU would mean many problematic requirements would disappear but it is not 'leave' enough 'politically'.

I don't see how there can be any border at all without breaking the GFA.

It seems basic and obvious that we can't have a border, therefore the whole idea was a no-go shitshow before A50 was even triggered.

A 'border' is principally about goods, the need for tax and 'certifications' (checking that they are to the correct standard).
The Belfast Agreement mainly calls for no PHYSICAL border, not least as there is 250? miles and about 300? crossing points which makes it tricky.
While there are obviously physical issues with this, it is mainly the political aspect with some arguing that NI must be treated exactly like England, Scotland and Wales who at the same time are insisting that they are 'different' on things like abortion. Some checks on animal movements are already used to prevent the possible spread of disease, so it would mainly be an extension of checks that are already happening.

The border in the sea would be between NI and rUK. Items would pass across the NI / Ireland border unchecked as now. That is my preferred option if we HAVE to leave.

Why should NI benefit? Over Scotland for instance?

I don’t want any border btw which is one of the reasons I want to remain

@Random18 - Why should NI benefit? Over Scotland for instance?

Because Scotland doesn't have a GFA.

I definitely do not want a border I crossed it 4 times yesterday and will cross over and back today aswell. We were just talking about last night on our way home how when we were children we would have been in a que to “get back in” in the winter I don’t cross as often however we spend a lot of weekends in Donegal and wish to continue doing so !

Border in the sea will never be agreed to by the DUP.

Actual physical border breaches GFA.

The DUP can't have it both ways - parity with rUK except on civil rights.

Well, it appears they can because that’s what the constitution of the UK allows. But sure why bother about that like.

You're right, they can. And ERG types are using this.

So why say the DUP. Can’t have it both ways?

They can.

The problem is that rUK didn’t take into account that GFA was a legally binding international treaty.

Oops.

There has to be some sort of physical border. If you go between France and Switzerland there did a physical actual border because Switzerland is outside EU.

It's not manned full time with checks etc because Switzerland has a frontalier agreement with France. It's only manned sometimes, spot checks etc.

I'm Irish (Republic) and I don't want an actual physical border.

The backstop is a polite way for the rest of the world to point out that they do not trust us to keep to the internationally ratified and voted on by both sides GFA.

Even time we winge about the backstop we are showing how seriously we take our obligations under international treaties (ie not at all, happy to ditch) which just makes the case for the backstop more strongly.

My first thought when I heard the result of the referendum was 'what about Ireland '. It's got worse and worse as time goes by

As a side issue, I don't hear the DUP being all that keen on aligning with the rest of the UK when it comes to women's choices.

https://www.asn.org.uk

@FinallyHere - As a side issue, I don't hear the DUP being all that keen on aligning with the rest of the UK when it comes to women's choices.

Didn't hear any complaints either when the No Deal plans on tariffs were announced either. NI would be treated differently under those, with no tariffs between the north and the Republic, provided the goods were remaining in NI. I think that might contravene WTO rules though. Not that it surprises me that the UK gov don't understand the rules ( or else feel they shouldn't apply as, well, do you know who we are?).

Indeed @doIreallyneedto

For the whole of the UK to remain in the customs union.

And/or to stop pretending that Northern Ireland is not a special case. Virtually everyone who lives there is entitled to an Irish passport - therefore an EU passport. So you have a non-EU territory full of EU citizens. How can that not be a special case?

@havingtochangeusernameagain - So you have a non-EU territory full of EU citizens. How can that not be a special case?

Indeed. And a large number of those who have only recently applied for Irish passports are the very same ones who are bleating loudly about the union and how very British they are. In fact, Ian Paisley Jr recommended to his constituents that they apply for Irish passports.

It's not all about the backstop. The argument about the backstop is a convenient excuse, and a means of keeping the DUP and their MPs onside.

I think you would find that if the backstop issue could be overcome another issue would simply take its place, because at the heart of this is a desire by some conservative MPs to leave without a transition.