Westministenders: BAH HUMBUG said Mr Rees-Mogg

[RedToothBrush]

"At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge Rees-Mogg, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."

"Are there no prisons hostels?"

"Plenty of prisons hostels..."

"And the Union workhouses foodbanks." demanded Scrooge Jacob. "Are they still in operation?"

"Both very busy, sir..."

"Those who are badly off must go there."

"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."

"If they would rather die," said Scrooge ^Rees-Mogg, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

He continued "Besides I do not believe that anyone would die without them. I think Theresa is right, there are many complex reasons why nurses go to food banks. The real reason for the rise in numbers is that people know that they are there and Labour deliberately didn't tell them. To have charitable support given by people voluntarily to support their fellow citizens I think is rather uplifting and shows what a good, compassionate country we are"

------------------------

This thread is dedicated to Mrs8 and anyone else who is working to make life just a little better in the difficult circumstances that ALL politicians are currently doing their best to ignore (despite what they profess).

No Deal = even more poverty and destitution.

MERRY CHRISTMAS & HERES HOPING FOR A HAPPIER NEW YEAR
especially to those of you, who might be having a tough time or facing real uncertainity.

But overall yes I do think that leave has an easier narrative to sell: the story of the big bad EU ganging up on plucky little England.

Haven’t really kept up over the last few days but saw on C4 that they will be airing the Brexit film with Benedict Cumberbatch. I thought it was only going to be on HBO but is airing on 7th Jan. I wonder what impact that will have.

{But overall yes I do think that leave has an easier narrative to sell: the story of the big bad EU ganging up on plucky little England.}
That will be the 'plucky little England' that has been 'two timing' the EU over the years, while flirting with the USA.
For the good of the EU, the UK needs to leave.
For the good of the UK (particularly) it needs to sign up to the WA and leave gradually.
What I just can't get my head around is the fact that 'Leavers' haven't demanded even a basic outline of HOW the UK is going to maintain the same standard of living, never mind an improvement over how it is as part of the EU.
If you were to want to cross a river with crocodiles in it you would want to see either a boat or a nearby bridge that can be used but to rely on 'blind faith' is pushing things too far.

I think that's leavers don't question brexit because it's become an identity, and it takes a lot to question one's identity...

In my favourite newspaper today: Johnson is a 'winner' in the eyes of Tim Martin who apparently thinks we'll be better off without a deal. As long as he meddles in politics, I shall continue to give 'spoons a wide berth:

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1062058/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Theresa-May-European-Union-Boris-Johnson-Wetherspoons-latest/amp

Drug firms preparing for no-deal Brexit told to sign 'gagging orders'

May's secrecy means most people still don't have a clue about the impact of No Deal on the country and probably on themselves and their family members.

If there are another 2 months dithering, so that business / markets finally panic,
that could change - Sterling crash, inflation, capital flight, interest rate rises, redundancies ....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/23/pharmaceutical-firms-preparing-no-deal-brexit-ordered-to-sign-ndas

Pharmaceutical organisations working with Whitehall to maintain medicine supplies in the event of a no-deal Brexit
have signed 26 “gagging orders” that bar them from revealing information to the public.

Figures show that 16 drug companies and 10 trade associations have been asked to sign non-disclosure agreements (NDAs)
which prevent them from revealing any information related to contingency plans drawn up with the Department of Health and Social Care.

It means that the government has now asked at least 60 partners working on no-deal preparations across Whitehall to sign such agreements

Hope everyone had a fantastic christmas!

Aside from the 4m ish die hard anti europeans aka ukip voters - are people really associating brexit with their identities ?

Certainly the Leavers i know don't want to talk about anything EU or political anymore, much as it was pre 2016.

However, my prediction is: there wont be a 2nd vote, Mays deal will get through and we'll leave in March - Cressida Dicks intervention today on how the public will be put at risk by a no deal brexit will help convince a few more MPs to vote for her deal.

Outside the EU, Britain faces a bleak future in Trump’s world

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/26/eu-brexit-trump-world-us-president-europe

the 45th US president is helping to create a world where old rules don’t apply and long-held assumptions,
such as Britain’s claim to a “special relationship” with Washington,
are an anachronistic embarrassment.
.....
To survive on its own in a world full of hazards,
Britain is relying on the familiar frameworks, multilateral institutions, laws, regulations, diplomatic conventions and commercial codes
that have governed state-to-state relations since 1945.

But it is exactly this consensual rulebook that Trump is recklessly tearing up.
......
In Trump’s world, nobody respects weaklings and has-beens,
especially when they used to run the show (or thought they did).

Viewed from all those places formerly coloured pink in the atlas, Brexit increasingly looks like payback time.

Gatwick airport sold to a French firm ...

Once people start losing jobs it might change some minds.

Maybe, although if the age 50+ Leavers in Sunderland get a good retirement package from Nissan, they might not!

If you were to want to cross a river with crocodiles in it you would want to see either a boat or a nearby bridge that can be used but to rely on 'blind faith' is pushing things too far.

No crocodiles in the river - that's Project Fear.

As for the predictions for 2019. I can't see any circumstances where Vince Cable led a cross party government to implement Brexit. They had their fingers burnt badly in the last Coalition, and to renege on their commitment to the EU would be a lot bigger deal than reneging on student fees was.

With gagging orders on transport, a significant chunk of vehicle manufacturing, pharmaceuticals and others there is going to be one hell of a 'bang' at the point when the extent of this is known.
Meanwhile a musical interlude with Paul Simon, '50 ways to leave your lover'.

I wish they would all agree to break ranks on the gagging orders. The Government couldn't take all the CEOs to court - they only try it on with people they think are weak.

peregrina If a company actually pulls out, rather than just downsizing,
I'd expect them to pay only the legal minimum in redundancy, which is just over 15k,

• that won't last long, especially for those earning a good whack.

The gagging orders strategy is playing with fire, or a truckload of TNT.

Firms getting together would be difficult

• they'd each worry about being shafted, or lleaks which would isolate them from the others.

It's not just fear of court:
it's also being shut out of govt procurement contracts - often a major source of income - for years

Maybe if 2-3 in one industry go public, then many more in other industries would.
Most likely, it would take a major firm pulling out, who would have nothing to lose and hence can bluntly explain why

What would be a real game-changer is getting rid of Corbyn,
but I don't think there's time - or courage - to do that

Labour strategists would be balancing losing many voters - especially the young - vs having an open goal after a No Deal economic meltdown.

However, if the WA is eventually passed - imo 50: 50 at 2nd or 3rd attempt - there would be limited effects in transition and that could be extended under a new PM

Under No Deal, too, Labour could find itself sharing the blame, for Corbyn cheering on Breixt.

So Labour might find they've pissed off many of the left and centre voters AND no backlash against the Tories.
i.e. languishing in Opposition until Corbyn and his cabal are kicked out

Jo Maugham QC@JolyonMaugham

The chosen metric of success for most political parties is whether it wins a General Election.

I appreciate this metric is inconvenient for Corbynistas.

But if having lots of members is theirs I'm sorry to have to say Labour is getting its arse whupped by the National Trust

^If a company actually pulls out, rather than just downsizing,
I'd expect them to pay only the legal minimum in redundancy, which is just over 15k,^

This will go a lot further in Sunderland than in London, but I bet the 50+ people who voted Leave had the idea in the back of their minds that they would get a good retirement package. It depends on what sort of pension deal they have.

So once again, it will be slightly younger ones who get shafted. I am not going to sympathise - the Nissan management warned them for a start, and they should have looked to see who was fronting the Leave campaigns.

I'd expect firms like Nissan in those circumstances just to keep to the legal minimum of their pension rules
which are often much less flexible wrt age than for public sector work

I know in the firms I've worked for, that pension date could only be moved forward with consent of the employer
and obviously paid at a lower rate, significantly lower for those in their 50s.

Of course, Tories teaching us our place is nothing new ...

archive.org/stream/villagelabournew00hammuoft/villagelabournew00hammuoft_djvu.txt

Mr. Bishton, who wrote the Report on Shropshire in 1794, gives a still more interesting glimpse into the mind of the enclosing class : "The use of common land by labourers operates upon the mind as a sort of 'independence.' When the commons are enclosed 'the labourers will work every day in the year, their children will be put out to labour early,' and ' that subordination of the lower ranks of society which in the present times is so much wanted, would be thereby considerably secured."

(One reason education had to go first ...)

{and they should have looked to see who was fronting the Leave campaigns.}
Well if you consider Farage and BoJo and others, on the surface there is a certain degree of credibility but not if you started to think about HOW they might achieve what they were claiming or WHY things weren't being done already.
The ancient example of funding the NHS, there has never been any suggestion as to why the government of the day cannot put more money and effort into doing whatever is needed to improve/maintain it's standards.

Having signed up for the gov.uk email notifications I am puzzled as to what some of the gov representatives are saying. I have just gor notifications of the Ambassador speaking to UK citizens in Crete.
How can they be giving actual information when the actual departure MIGHT not happen, or it could be after a transition period of 2 or more years or 'crash out' on March 29th.
Does anyone have and idea what is being said?
There have been many of these notices for residents in many countries in the EU.

I'd expect them to pay only the legal minimum in redundancy, which is just over 15k

It will be a lot worse than that for many. That’s the maximum statutory redundancy payment. You’d only get that if you were aged 41+, earning in excess of about £26k and had worked at the same company for over 20 years. A younger person earning say, £20K and having worked there ten years would get less than £4K.

I was made redundant in 2003. The company had always paid out a month’s salary for each year of service when there’d been the odd redundancy. I’d worked there 12 years so would have got a year’s salary. The company couldn’t, or wouldn’t, do this as they were making redundancies on a large scale. We were given the statutory payout which back then was capped at £150 for each week’s service. So after 12 years I got £1800. The only thing that stopped it being a complete financial disaster for me was having a three month notice period in my contract.

BCF surely Nissan or whoever has to pay redundancy in line with the T&C's of the employees contract of employment? unless they go bust, in which case they are reliant on the Government.

Being made redundant doesn't change when or how you can take your pension, that is purely done on age eg 55 or over, the scheme is separate from the company.

Aside, Brexit reminds me of when i was a kid and got into trouble, i'd say to Mum "Sandra and Matt told me to do it!" she'd reply "if they told you to jump off the Tamar Bridge, would you do it?"

On redundancies, if you've been employed for less than 2 years, you have zero protection (as I've found out recently). Most of my friends (late 30s) tend to hop from job to job every 2-3 years. I know very few who have been with the same company for 5 years, let alone a decade. Most workers my generation seem to me to have rather precarious terms. It's hard saving up as well (for me personally, this year's savings were gobbled up by Home Office fees). Most of us are 1 month away from serious debt (If not already in debt).

LeClerc there is little sense - or truth, or reality - coming out of the UK govt or Foreign Office about UK expats.
Best not to believe them except when they hold joint events with the host country officials.

A good source of info, for the different countries too:

britishineurope.org/2018/09/18/the-british-in-europe-no-deal-checklist/

e.g. In Germany
britishingermany.org/2018/12/22/update-on-uk-citizen-status-in-germany-deal-or-no-deal/

Here, the authorities state they have made contingency plans for us in the case of no Deal
There will be a register from late January for expats in Berlin to put their names on
Immigration rules are national, so there will be a similar system in the other German states

This will be used once it is know whether Brexit will happen and if so when and what form.

Of course, the host country can only give permission to stay in that one country - FOM across the other 26 would be lost.