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Brexit

Anyone else looking at Polish citizenship through ancestry?

60 replies

speakingwoman · 24/08/2018 21:33

We are exploring this option but have no documents so I’m about to pay for a search for the birth certificates.

Anyone else?

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GorgonLondon · 25/08/2018 16:07

I've only heard from my dad. It was his father who was born in Poland but left as a small child and became naturalized British. I'm not sure where he found out, but I will ask.

toomanychilder · 25/08/2018 16:14

If he took British citizenship he would have lost his polish citizenship so any descendants born after that point would be ineligable.

speakingwoman · 25/08/2018 16:24

I 't think may not be quite right toomanychilder.

I think it's more to to with whether you served in an official capacity for a foreign state, in particular doing military service.

Given that virtually no Jews were able to return to their home towns in Poland, they must have taken on some other nationality, typically British, US or Australian. Yet plenty of their descendants are getting Polish passports!

I'm about to do another Qualification Quiz! on poland.passport.com. Will update when I know how we've got on....

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toomanychilder · 25/08/2018 16:27

No, its covered in the Polish Citizenship Act of 1920.

The issue of losing one’s citizenship before 1962 is complex, and the different principles of the law governing it are the following:

A person born before the 1951 law entered into force may inherit only the Polish citizenship of their father if their parents were married, or their mother-otherwise.
A person who joined a foreign army (even if never served but was only conscripted on paper), worked in a public job in a foreign country (very wide and volatile definition for that but this includes: teacher, religious leader, postman and even in a territory not defined as a country like British Palestine ) or received any foreign citizenship prior to the entry into force of the law of 1951 - loses their citizenship immediately, and if a married man, also his wife and minor children (younger than 18) lose their citizenship.
Nevertheless, if they were not exempt from Polish army duty then only getting foreign citizenship will not revoke their Polish one. Public work and army register will always cause the loss of citizenship. Therefore, an adult unmarried women have lost their citizenship on obtaining foreign citizenship before 1951, because they had no military duty in Poland. Married women stayed under the "protection" of their husband's citizenship and kept it as long as the husband didn't lose it.
On the other hand, in the case of men there are two conditions which need to prevail: men who both got foreign citizenship and passed the age of Polish military duty (50 since the law changed on May 29, 1950) had lost their citizenship.
In any case, foreign citizenship will cause the loss of an adult’s Polish citizenship only if he was naturalized i.e. those who obtained citizenship by birth ( e.g. in USA or Israel, even if born in Palestine and got Israeli citizenship once the state was established etc.) , did not lose their Polish citizenship.
A person who obtained a foreign citizenship (non Polish) due to the changes of the borders after WWII, or had Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Lithuanian, Latvian or Estonian citizenship in 1951 had lost his Polish citizenship (see clause 4 of the second law). Nonetheless, if the ex-Pole returned to Poland afterwards due to the different agreements of repatriation that were signed between the USSR and Poland (e.g. in 1945 and 1956), then they regained his Polish citizenship. In fact, every Pole that became a Soviet citizen and did not take advantage of the opportunity to come back to Poland due to these agreements, lost their Polish citizenship.
In order to confirm the citizenship of a person who left before 1951, it will be easier to prove that he left Poland after the first law from 1920 entered into force. Otherwise it will be difficult to prove his Polish citizenship. If the parents stayed in Poland after 1920 it might help.
The law from 1920 allows for citizenship to pass from father to his born-out-of-wedlock child only if the father declared his paternity before the child turned 18 and only in front of Polish authorities. Hence, without an original birth certificate with the father's name it might be difficult to prove.
The law from 1962 allows for citizenship to pass from father to his born-out-of-wedlock child only if the father declared his paternity within one year from birth. Hence, such children of only a Polish father (mother is not Polish) born when this law was in force must show an original birth certificate or a paternity declaration signed before they turned one year old (in Israel, this declaration is usually done in the hospital, when registering as the newborn's father and it is saved in the archives of the Ministry of Interior and a copy of it can be issued on request).
The issue of citizenship of children whose parents had different nationalities was regulated not only in the provisions of the Act on Polish Citizenship, but also in the international agreements ratified by Poland in the field of citizenship. This means that, in such a case, the provisions of the Polish Citizenship Act were not applied. In the 60s and the 70s Poland signed with some countries of the Central and Eastern Europe the conventions on avoidance of multiple nationality from which withdrew in the 90s and 2000s.[7]

keyboardjellyfish · 25/08/2018 17:03

I was looking into Lithuania and found family in Poland, so possibly? Jewish line so nothing is particularly clear which is frustrating, and many died in camps too. Any insight is useful! But I think for me it's a dead line :(

speakingwoman · 25/08/2018 17:38

by "no" you mean.......???

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speakingwoman · 25/08/2018 17:40

Ah sorry I'm with you. You said:

"The problem with polish citizenship is that if the ancestor you wish to claim through lost their citizenship, either through acquiring another one or marrying a foreign national before 1951, then you can't claim citizenship from them."

looks like ours only got their US naturalisation in '54. interesting!

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bobisbored · 25/08/2018 18:14

My FIL was Polish. He came here after the war. He lied about his age (said he was younger) and had no papers. We know nothing of his family or origin. He refused to talk about it. He's dead now so we'll never know. It's sad, I'd like my DCs to know about the Polish side.

speakingwoman · 25/08/2018 18:14

I think lots of people "reinvented" themselves e.g. as younger....

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GorgonLondon · 25/08/2018 18:18

I need to read that in detail when I'm less tired. My grandfather was in UK civil defence in ww2 so that might rule him out.

optimusprimesmother · 25/08/2018 18:19

Oh good grief this is mental Shock

I voted to stay but some of you are crazies !! Confused

goodgirls · 25/08/2018 18:22

Crazies? For trying to gain back the EU citizenship that they have had taken from them?

That makes no sense.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 25/08/2018 18:23

Yes all run and get polish passports because the polish treat immigrants so well Hmm

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 25/08/2018 18:24

....FYI I’m Jewish with a polish grandparent

goodgirls · 25/08/2018 18:25

you know you don't have to live in Poland if you get citizenship? Its not compulsory?

Cattenberg · 25/08/2018 18:28

My granddad was a Jewish and probably Sephardic. I'm looking into applying for Spanish or Portuguese nationality as a person of Sephardic descent, but it's a long shot. The genealogist I spoke to wasn't familiar with the surnames in our family.

As well as proving Iberian Sephardic ancestry, I'd have to prove a connection with Spain or Portugal and I don't think studying Spanish at university is going to be enough.

Fucking Brexit!

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 25/08/2018 18:29

Yes but I would be ashamed to choose to be a citizen of such a right wing country

goodgirls · 25/08/2018 18:30

Yes but I would be ashamed to choose to be a citizen of such a right wing country

but you're ok with already being a citizen of such a right wing country?

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 25/08/2018 18:35

You need to go research if you are comparing the U.K. to Poland- go ask an ethnic person which country they would feel safer in. We are far from perfect but not comparable

Cattenberg · 25/08/2018 18:38

Those of you with Jewish ancestry, do you have an ancestor who had to leave Germany because of WWII? If so, you might be entitled to German nationality.

And I believe that if you have a Hungarian ancestor, you might be entitled to Hungarian nationality regardless of the number of generations.

GorgonLondon · 25/08/2018 18:40

I have just got back from visiting Poland and have many polish friends in London. None of them made me feel uncomfortable about being Jewish. Can't say the same about the UK Labour party. Or the swp. Or the Greens.

Cattenberg · 25/08/2018 18:43

FFS, the only people set to benefit from Brexit are wealthy right-wingers such as Jacob Rees-Mogg, Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson. I'd be grateful to any country which allowed me to retain my EU citizenship rights.

goodgirls · 25/08/2018 18:44

"And ethnic person" excuse me? WTF?

speakingwoman · 25/08/2018 19:06

Poland owes my husband's family big time, the way I see it Smile

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Reasontobelieve · 25/08/2018 19:25

I strongly agree SpeakingWoman, If my dd's grandfather had freely chosen to leave Poland for another country, I could understand the Polish government's position on citizenship. As I mentioned earlier, he did go back to his home town after his liberation, but found another family living in his family home. There were also a wave of anti-semitic attacks, which led to the deaths of a number of Jews. There were many, many survivors in exactly the same position. They had no choice but to leave for other countries.

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