Anyone else think voting on final deal terrible idea?

[Echobelly]

I am a Remainer and was in the process of signing a 'Let the people vote on the final deal' thing, when I realised, actually it really isn't a good idea.

The People, and I include myself in that, have shown that we really don't understand this stuff, so we're not likely to be any better at getting what the Deal is (though I'm pretty sure it'll be dreadful).

I think the campaigning around such a vote would be appalling, really vicious and divisive, and would end in a close result either way (and by no means a vote to remain). The Leave side would campaign as 'SAVE DEMOCRACY FROM THE ELITE!!!' resulting in lots of accusations, a rise in sly antisemitism ('Soros put them up to this!') and the Remain side would be fearmongering furiously. There'd be mass manipulation and dodginess on social media and the societal fallout would be awful even if the outcome were Remain. Perhaps especially if that were so - there'd be a big resurgence in the Far Right wanting to reclaim 'Their England' (or should I say 'There England) from the people who snatched away Britain's sovereignty (as they'd see it).

The only way I can think around it being a disaster is for there to be a firm Remain alternative that requires there to be a premium of government development money spent on the most deprived areas of the UK in the event of not leaving the EU so that all those places that voted Leave get something in return.

Junker (sic) doesn't look like anything. The man doing the negotiations is Barnier.

Dunno. Maybe if there was some policing of information to ensure everything anyone uttered wasn't allowed to be presented as a fact. And corrections reported or published. If the consequences of different scenarios were explained.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/thirty-six-things-that-will-happen-if-britain-crashes-out-of-europe-with-no-deal

And more than one perspective was allowed out there. Some in the UK think the other members are all ganging up and being bullies. People from some other member states think it is the UK which has bullied and blackmailed it's way in 'the club' for aeons.

twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1021778708678553600

Referendums need to be planned and policed. If it was run more responsibly, I don't know what anyone could object to.

I don't agree with referenda in the U.K. I don't think they work with our form of representative democracy.

However, Parliament has not got the guts to over turn the previous referendum.

A second referendum is the only chance to have a final decision. The details need to be much more carefully thought through and we need to have rigorous oversight to make sure laws are not broken this time.

The longer we wait before another referendum the more the demographics move in favour of remain.

Remember the ones who didn't vote...
Well they are registered and what if they come out and vote....
They didn't care enough to last time, but the media stirred up the young, what if they target this lot, and get them to see how politicians got a result then ignored it.
This is a cobbled together mishmash, and it would be so easy for papers to report our lack of power and wishes being ignored, vote leave and make your vote count.
After all Remain don't see to be to do more than scare the voters...

What would the options on the ballot paper even be - presumably it can't be a binary question like 'do you support the deal? Yes or no', since plenty of Remainers and Leavers alike won't support the deal but have different preferred outcomes following on from that. If the options are:
1 accept the deal
2 leave with no deal
3 negotiate to stay in for a couple more years whilst we continue to negotiate the deal
4 don't leave

What would the margin have to be to make 'don't leave' acceptable if the combined votes under 1, 2 and 3 (which all represent flavours of leave) added up to more than 4 but 4 had the greatest share of the vote on its own?

The situation is too complex. On paper I support the idea of a vote on the deal given the consequences are profound for the country, but I don't see how it can work.

If we went for an AV type option you could get more than one choice. There are a number of options. My concern would be if we went for a more complex system and Brexit lost it would be portrayed as a stitch up by the elite.

Politicians haven't ignored the result they have worked to implement it. Once we are closer to a final deal we could have another vote to confirm the decision.

I think the referendum and resulting “negotiations” have shown just how difficult a process it is and will continue to be. It’s shown that our parliament is incapable of working together to find the best possible route out of this mess. Not only does the Govt. seemingly have no clue but, they’re so busy fighting each other, the transition period could be a lot longer than 2 years.

I’d welcome a vote on the terms. I mean, you wouldn’t put an offer in to buy a house at a certain price; have the survey done and blithely go ahead when you find out that there are plans to build a motorway at the end of your back garden and every year, the road floods, would you? At some point you’d take a step back and try to do the right thing with the survey results.

It’s a bit like informed consent when you go into hospital for a procedure. “Yes, we can stop your persistent cough. We’ll remove your head” 😐

We're not even at the stage of buying a house though, we are at the stage of wife saying she wants to move and looking for somewhere which might suit, and husband storming off to the pub because he doesn't want to go.

And when he gets back from the pub there won't be any cheese for him to eat.

True story.

Remember the ones who didn't vote...Well they are registered and what if they come out and vote....

The same people who didn’t care enough about leaving the EU to come out and vote for it when it was all unicorns and £350m a week for the NHS?

My love, they will either not care a second time, or they’ll come out and vote remain to make all this shit go away.

If they didn’t get out there for leave last time round when it was potentially amazing, they’re not going to do it second time round when they know it’s a load of shit.

I think we should have a say on what happens, as the consequences will affect us all for generations to come.

The choices should be: do we accept this Brexit deal and these consequences - or do we reject the deal and remain in the EU.

Considering that the most popular uk google searches after the Brexit vote were “what is Brexit?” and “what is the “EEC?”, I think that letting ‘The People’ vote is A VERY BAD IDEA.

Yes, I think the Leave campaign did some dodgy things but ultimately no one can prove the vote would have gone another way if not for that

The Electoral Commission, who are the body in charge of upholding electoral law, concluded that the Leave campaign broke the law, and the penalty was the highest ever awarded (to signal the seriousness of the offences). Why do we have electoral laws, if they can simply be ignored? Why do you think vast sums of money were spent illegally on the Leave campaign if it made no difference to the vote? Where is the report showing that the Remain campaign also cheated?

The only person I know who didn't vote is my stepmother. She felt she didn't know enough about the issues to make an informed choice about something so complex. I'm sure if there is a second referendum she will go and vote for remain!

The problem with the original referendum is the lack of real unbiased opinion.

There is a lot of scare mongering going on . I think we have to trust the politicians to vote in the best interests

Our politicians?!

I wouldn’t trust any of them as far as I could throw them. They are utterly rotten to the core.

Every political rerun of a vote has resulted in the public reacting by making the win margin even larger.

That statement doesn't make any sense; every GE is a rerun of same procedure, they don't all turn out the same!
And 2016 vote was hardly a confirmation of the 1970s EU vote, was it?

Even so

Are you prepared for [bigger leave result], bearing in mind you didn't get the result you wanted first time.

Personally I'd feel A LOT better if we got a bigger Leave vote. Not as great as I'd feel if we got a strong Remain result, but better than where we are now. So many people voted Leave "to give the establishment a kicking" not b/c they wanted Brexit. Need to know that the crap Bexit is still what people truly want. I don't know why Leavers aren't shouting BRING IT ON.

Terrible idea. The options are not leave or remain - whether we leave or remain in the EU is now in the hands of all its member states. I think if just one blocked an attempt by the UK to stay, we'd be out.

So the options would be Deal or No Deal, and an awful lot of the hardline leavers would vote No Deal. A last minute crash-out would be disastrous because we won't have the organisations, infrastructure, and staff in place to control our borders and replace what the EU used to do for us.

Plus the last referendum was the biggest boost the far right had enjoyed in decades. I don't want that again.

Anyway there isn't time. There's barely enough time for our incompetent government to negotiate a deal at all. The EU27 have been quietly getting all their ducks in a row while the Tory party have been in chaos.

I believe some EU27 members have to have referenda to ratify the deal? If they have time for a referendum, so do we.

@missmoon - my understanding is that because the Referendum wasn't an election, sadly the findings against the Leave campaign don't invalidate the result , however much we might want it to (can't find link to article about it now!). I think had similar happened in an actual parliamentary election, it could have lead to another vote.

I wasn’t arguing that it should invalidate the result. Just objecting to your minimising of the facts as “dodgy goings on, everyone was doing it” when in fact the actions of the Leave campaign (and other associated Leave groups) are extremely serious breaches of electoral law, as found by the Electoral Commission, that are likely to lead to criminal charges at some point.

If an MP in an individual constituency broke the law in the way the Leave campaign did there would be a by election.