Westministers: Happy New Year?

[RedToothBrush]

And so we enter a New Year full of hope that things might just be about to recover from our national nervous breakdown... or perhaps not.

As we have Damien Green ejected from his role as Deputy PM over allegations of inappropriate conduct towards woman and use of porn at the end of last year, 2018 sees a bright new progressive dawn with the appointment to the role of universities regulator of Toby Young. A man who has deleted 20,000 tweets including many which are inappropriate and offensive to women, is a fan of eugenics and hates the working class and disabled.

Meanwhile the NHS is facing a crisis which is totally unexpected to the government and couldn't possibly have been planned for by a man who has over seen it for over five years. Which naturally bodes really well for Brexit planning.

We are apparently planning to join the TPP. Never mind geopolitics we can move the UK to the Pacific region.

We still are not ready for trade talks because the Cabinet can not agree on anything. Not that it sounds like they have actually discussed anything along these lines yet.

Rumours are that the Cabinet - including arch leavers such as Gove - are leaning towards supporting May and a softer option, despite the disgust of Johnson, who once again is the subject of malicious chatter about his sacking in a forthcoming Cabinet Reshuffle.

There is talk of further Tory Party war with the revelation that membership of the party has dropped to a core of just 70,000 hardline authoritarian men, most of whom are over 60. Tory HQ now wants to (perhaps with some good reason to prevent the loons) rewrite the constitution and limit the power of local associations to select candidates. The Tory party is now lining up to be a power struggle between internal authoritarians, who don't like democracy voices or structure.

Meanwhile the Labour Party membership now apparently overwhelmingly looks upon staying in the customs union and single market favourably and is in favour of a second referendum. In opposition to the leadership who are utterly committed to Hard Brexit. Much to the annoyance of Lord Adonis who is pitching a fit about government corruption and incompetence and being accused of being elite because he going skiing. Unlike of prominent Leavers who are in touch with the working class.

And finally Nigel Farage has got a meeting with Barnier. Farage, unlike Clegg, Clarke and Adonis, will not be accused by the Right Wing Press of undermining the government's negotiating position because...

It appears that we are in for another year of Brexit nonsense then.

We've not even heard mention of Gibraltar yet.

Laura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak
PM's spokesman has ruled out paying the EU for the financial services' sector to access the single market.

The problem with Chris Williamson, and other of his ilk, is the determination to demonised and polarise.

Everyone in London is rich. Well aren't they?

Except its not that simple.

The use of the words 'those neo-liberals' is one to silence dissent and internal discussion. Its not about starting a thought provoking or a productive discussion.

Its about 'I believe this, I am right, and we should do this' without any thought whatsoever.

Its not something restricted to London. Labour have this inability to see different types of poverty and come up with solutions that ensure that those in atypical situations are also protected.

The alternative is you effectively end up 'self ghettoising' and actively restricting the opportunities of those who are not so well off.

Its GOOD to have mixed communities, because the more privileged people can help lift up those who are not so privileged.

Our local council is obsessed by the same thing. Its all about the rich area v the poor area. How the fuck does that help anyone? There are plenty of people who live in 'nice bits' who are some how deprived or vulnerable in different way. This over generalising is harmful.

My point, is that there is this core in Labour, who are defining poverty as being far too simplistic and their solutions make them look like draconian nutters every bit as much as their Tory counterparts, because they are not willing to stop and think about how the most vulnerable will be fucked over by their bloody wonderful idea and how it might back fire spectacularly.

They have no interest in improving society. They just want to use it as an opportunity to somehow 'punish' people who aren't not part of their clan. The language I've seen in a variety of places is on this level and not about progressive politics in the slightest. Its riddled with deep seated chips on the shoulder.

I find it disingenuous to say its about helping the poor in certain cases. They don't understand the problems are different in different areas, and you can not just say things like Londoners are all rich.

You don't get good policy from refusing to hear criticism and engaging with others.

If these people in Labour think they can win an election like that, then they are bloody idiots, and we'll be stuck with the other bunch of morons forever more.

I wish brain cells would be engaged by all. This requires empathy from all quarters. Not just from elite out of touch Tories.

Yummy. Farage will be able to use forriners causing food shortages in his bus. It'll be a quiet affair a new referendum.

I can't vote labour now as according to new party rules women don't exist, which is a pity.

One fun thing about watching this all is the man bag dropping at the thought of any labour tax rises.

If you take a look on many abuse threads in this manor, you'll see the disparity between man pay and woman pay. Many women even on part time are on no way the equivalent of a male full time wage. Hence no pensions for women carers. Men get to pay the tax men get to choose who it's spent so far.

Wouldn't it be fun if there was a flat pay rate for all. Everywhere. Property would plummet. Rental market would collapse.

But women could get equal pay jobs. Would be able to afford property. And the spare tax could go on the welfare services we are providing for 'free' for them.

Assets which are being eyeballed for Labour tax, are gendered, and it'd be such fun to see that shared with the other half of the country.

Taxation is a feminist issue boys.

Oh, it;s very, very comforting to see someone saying that, Red.

I know that there is a solid core (in all political parties) who think like this but it's been a bit lost recently.

I think the depressing truth is things have to go in cycles

Again ...

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

If you take that as broadly in the right, then all the anger building up "on the streets" will be met by a political system increasingly unable to cope with it - to understand it even.

Then we're back to heads on spikes.

I wonder how many people who'd say "can't happen here" also know that the last time in Europe a leader (and his wife) were taken outside and shot was 1989. And that's before we reflect on how Libya went.

PM's spokesman has ruled out paying the EU for the financial services' sector to access the single market.

Which is it to be - either the EU tells us 'no payment, no financial services' or May backs down quietly?

Wouldn't it be fun if there was a flat pay rate for all. Everywhere. Property would plummet. Rental market would collapse

It would be as good as the USSR.

Under that old marxist Mrs Thatch, I remembered my shock at the amount of tax taken out of my first modest pay packets.

And in return, I only got free HE, a grant, libraries, fully functioning NHS, vast comprehensive free FE, adequate and mainly state schools, properly free dentistry and opticians, funded mental health services, cheap public transport, cheap council flats were even available to rent in London: mid to late 1980s.

It wasn't perfect but there weren't so many dead bodies in the street.

Men don't like the idea at all Rosetti
Why is that?

I've been afraid of it for sometime. I do fear that 'lynch mobs' could happen. The wrong person in the wrong place. London accent in a northern town? You are asking to get beaten up.

Btw, Professor Green's series on working class work men on C4 is worth watching.

Peregina, I think this is a possibility

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
It appears the Chancellor misspoke this morning on paying for EU access for financial services. No10: “We will not pay for market access”.

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Which could also mean: "We will not call 'paying for market access' 'paying for market access'"

The NHS Tax.

Coming to your pay packet soon.

Hey I have this great idea! We could have a sort of tax that pays for the NHS and all healthcare, sort of like insurance but for the whole nation. We can call it something like National Insurance!

... Oh wait...

Why do they want to make it not an increase on income tax or an increase on NI. Why separate? Its important distinction. Why?

Have we seen this analysis in the Independent ....

A no-deal Brexit could cost the UK economy £50bn, according to independent economic analysis commissioned by Mayor of London Sadiq Khan.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-sadiq-khan-no-deal-hard-latest-economy-eu-article-50-billion-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-a8152856.html

Why do they want to make it not an increase on income tax or an increase on NI. Why separate? Its important distinction. Why?

Because tax is a dirty word whereas people are used to NI and are OK with it. I suspect the idea is that a second NHS tax will cause people to associate a public health care system with bad, nasty tax.

Delurking briefly to add, re the simplistic ideologues on both sides, I was concerned to hear recently a young Labour activist interviewed on R4 about her hopes for 2018 including a wish to see an end to the politics of compromise. Which seems to me the exact opposite of what the country needs right now, and sums up all my concerns about the Labour party, despite fundamentally agreeing with their values.
(And thanks everyone for continuing to fill these threads with so much interest and wisdom.)

The interesting thing is that increasing polls are starting to show people are more willing to pay higher taxes, particularly when they will pay for the NHS. So actually though I write the above about it being bad, having NHS in the name may be a bonus for people accepting it. It still seems crazy to have two taxes paying for the same thing.

My last comment on Thatcher's strangely egalitarian era is that pay was in general very flat; most people did get paid very similar amounts.

She was only able to devastate the land as much as she did because of the remnants of Wilson's socialist welfare, HSE, and firm trades union law that was still in place.

And women and men were paid and taxed the same; completely unlike now.

On the end of the politics of compromise: when you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose.

Many young people literally have nothing, except their debts.

Many women, similarly.

I too am extremely worried about violence, red I think that a referendum without the electoral laws and press laws guaranteeing decency, truth and ECHR commitments is a very scary prospect.

Is this referendum, being called by two men with no constitutional status because the Article 50 Challenge looks like it will succeed?
Does anyone trust NF and AB?

Delurking briefly to add, re the simplistic ideologues on both sides, I was concerned to hear recently a young Labour activist interviewed on R4 about her hopes for 2018 including a wish to see an end to the politics of compromise

When is a compromise a compromise, and when is it pointing out that your original policy is fundamentally flawed and will have dire consequences if you don't listen to others from another political sphere?

woman - I'm not sure that I agree that everyone was paid and taxed the same (sex discrimination was more overt than now, for example), but it's cetainly true that the gap between the best paid and worst paid in most organisations has grown over the years

I can't find a graph going back to the Thatcher years, but I'd be suprised if this trend didn't start back in the 80s / early 90s

As it happens I’ve long taken the view that Income Tax and NI should be merged, as if I understand right they end up in the same pot, and removing some of the complexity of income related taxes might save a few bob. But perhaps there are problems with this that I’m not aware of.

I would be against a specific NHS tax because all it would do is be compared unfavourably with the cost of private health insurance which - in this country at least - is subsidised by the NHS. (Dr Phil Hammond is good on this).

Looking at oecd tables I reckon taxes could rise overall by a couple of percent and we’d still be in the bottom half of the table in Europe (but taxation is complex and I could easily be proved wrong).

I don’t like the way council tax is currently set up - fixed absolute bands across the country when house prices vary considerably seem a bit silly. So yes, a massive increase to the top band is a stupid proposal, but on the other hand a rebranding (possibly more bands) to take into account that this isn’t 1991 any more. It’s quite possible that superior property taxation schemes are available and I’d be delighted to know more about them.

The interesting thing is that increasing polls are starting to show people are more willing to pay higher taxes, particularly when they will pay for the NHS

Polls, polls, polls.

Higher taxes to fund the NHS were offered by the Lib Dems and polls supported that. But the Great British Public said "no thanks".