City of Culture "shock". Reality bites ?

[LurkingHusband]

Whilst a lot of things have been happening under the table out of sight, the recent decision by the EC to reject bids from the UK could be argued to be one of the first tanglible and widespread intimations of a post Brexit life for many that were not really aware of what "Brexit" means.

Obviously the Brexit Bias Corporation will spin all the "nasty EU" stories it can find. But that said, how will the decision - and it's reverberations through the affected communities - play out ?

From memory, when previous UK cities have bid, there's been a strong educational element. Am I alone in picturing quite a few schools having to explain to their pupils why all the work they put towards the bids was wasted ?

I'm probably thinking the wrong way, now I type. It's probably a good idea that our next generation of citizens gets used - and gets used early - to being fucked over by a minority elite.

Bit weird, that EU expects us to pay in all the cash for stuff we've signed up to that started before Brexit, but won't do the same in return. We haven't left yet, and EU is demanding that obligations which straddle leaving date are honoured.

Yes, expect to leave all these things, but if it is key to honour existing obligations then that should happen for everything. To do otherwise exposes hypocrisy at best, downright vindictiveness at worst.

Unlike LH I am an immense Eurovision fan …..so to clarify!

European cities of culture -Ever since the launch of European cities of culture there have been common, clear and transparent criteria.The eligible participants include member states, potential candidates for EU membership and EFTA/EEA countries. We do not fall into any of these categories, so why on earth would we be eligible?

Eurovision -Israel and Australia will be able to enter Eurovision (and so will we) as long as the relevant country's Broadcasting Authority remains a member of the European Broadcasting Union, which is responsible for the event. It’s just called Eurovision but isn’t anything to do with membership of the EU. We do fall into this category as long as the BBC subscribes, so we are eligible. We will never win again though as no-one will vote for us, and who can blame them!

Its like comparing apples and beetroots.The rules, funding and institutions are different.

We haven't left yet, and EU is demanding that obligations which straddle leaving date are honoured.

No, it's not 'straddling the leaving date'. Theresa May is now asking for a two year transition or implementation, which takes us to 2021 and this was for 2023. She could have delayed triggering A50 but she chose not to. She could have asked people like those cities preparing to make bids for the EU Capital of Culture how it would affect them, and delay A50, but again, there is no evidence that she chose to do so. Appeasing her right wing and attempting to hold the Tory party together was her priority. So stop blaming the EU.

I think it's funny.

I've seen plenty of leavers outraged by this and plenty of others who are still full of the 'we stand alone like we did in ww1 and 2' faragey bull-shit

This week, two people who voted leave - and were proud at the time- tried to tell me they voted remain/didn't vote.

This pissed me right off but I imagine that's what a lot of people will be doing soon.

We could Brexit and stay in the EEA. But Noooooooo.... only a hard Brexit is allowed, even though that wasn't on the ballot paper. Eejits.

Quite, lljkk

I suspect that is why the cities were not immediately advised to drop the bid following the vote - everything was still up in the air and the UK had not officially confirmed that we would not be pursuing EEA membership or similar.
(And then we had another election, throwing everything up into the air once more.)

Do people really need to be spoon fed everything by Theresa May personally?

As a PP said, it's explicitly stated in the rules that if you do not qualify through EFTA/EEA/Full membership, or are not in the process of applying for any of that, then you are not eligible.

Surely the councils/MPs of those cities read the rules before preparing their bids?
And they must therefore have been fully aware that the Ref result cast doubt on it.
If not, why not?
A fool could see they were no longer eligible.

I understand that the announcement that U.K. would host it was pre-Ref (2014?) - but post-Ref & definitely post A50 it was clear that we'd be out of the EU by 2023.

That said, it wouldn't have killed the EU Commission to make it clear that it was no longer happening a lot sooner than now, so I don't understand why they've let the bidders carry on.

I think bids were allowed to carry on because we have given inconsistent messages about EFTA membership and no-one can believe we would be so stupid as to kiss that goodbye.

Also concerning the city of culture thing…..I appreciate that being a city of culture is fun and brings a huge boost and regeneration to the successful candidate city. BUT is LH right? Is reality biting? If it isn’t why on earth does this attract so much attention and emotion?

It is absurd. ‘We’ wanted out. This is a sign we are getting what we apparently wanted. Surely for the ex 52%, it is a cause for celebration?

Compared to the more significant matters, why be indignant over a one-off event for one City alone. Whilst I have sympathy for the people working on the bids for the relevant cities. The impact of our departure on arts and cultural matters is sheer peanuts compared to everything else.

Leaving the EU has a massively concerning effect on culture in the UK and on museums and galleries etc. I presume things like cultural exchanges and twin towns etc will lose their enthusiasm too. The Arts funding that was once provided by the EU will never be replaced by the domestic government. Creative Europe (EU programme to support the cultural, creative and audio visual sectors in the EU) in two years alone supported 230 UK cultural organisations and audio visual companies. For example, Slumdog Millionairereceived £830,000 for its production from the fund.

IMO the ineligibility over the city of culture has attracted astonishing and illogical gnashing of teeth on the radio etc. In the space of the same seven days the EMA and EBA were lost to Amsterdam and Paris. This received scant public attention.This is small fry too, in the bigger scheme of things. It involves much more than just one year of events for an individual city six years hence. The EMA/EBA permanent base here was not a one off thing, it brought in tens of thousands of visitors every year. Many jobs will be lost, and with them talent and prestige. The knock-on effect of no longer being the base for the EMA attracting pharma companies will affect research, life sciences, academic talent, investment etc etc.

Yet the focus is on the city of culture bids? Perhaps it because we have denied ourselves entry into a competition, and we live in a X factor style competition era. We like a competition.

We are (apparently) rejecting being part of the single market, rejecting UK businesses unfettered access to 500 million customers. We are rejecting our current membership which smooths access for 44 per cent of our exports £220bn out of £510bn.Yet we are bothered about not being able to enter a competition to host a cultural event in six years time?!! It’s such a skewed sense of priority.

Perhaps it is reality biting, but why does it bite over that?

I am wondering about Horizon2020 bids, tbh. It seems like the eligibility rules are very similar. No academic I know thinks UK institutions have serious chance in Horizon 2020 bids, anyway, most of not to be lead institution. Yet the UK govt. tried hard to reassure University sector to still go for H2020. I sure hope no one is wasting time on them.

Brexit is such a nasty blow to Higher Education sector in UK.

But guys, guys, think of the benefits.

Also perhaps the bidders were allowed to carry on preparing because the EU thought we may still choose to stay in the single market and customs union.After all some leaders of the Leave campaign said that is what we would do...

Sadly, it has progressively become clearer that the 'Leave everything' interpretation of the referendum (which was only taken by two people namely, Nick Timothy and Teresa May) is apparently a binding one. Although admittedly it is an interpretation supported by Gove and Bojo etc.

Perhaps the City of Culture committee were keeping options open for as long as they could, in the hope we may yet seek single market and customs union membership?

However in fact, this important decision was already made by Nick and Teresa, behind closed doors, instead of by parliamentary process.The extent of their power should have been made clearer to everyone, including the city of culture committee ...and the UK electorate.

Ah yes, I always forget the benefits .....

Has a unicorn emoji been suggested for this thread? Perhaps we could have a MN referendum on adding it to the list.Or not.

The DC are out and I am still pondering why our ineligibility for the city of culture received more response than other larger things, like jeopardising our trade.

Other cultural losses such as the European Union Youth Orchestra and the European Union Baroque Orchestra leaving London, because of our proposed exit, were other cultural losses.But they received scant attention.

Then.Duh.I realised.

Its a London thing isn't it? It boils down to the divide.The losses to London of the orchestras, the EMA and EBA seem irrelevant to many, regardless of the trickle down benefits that they bring.(For example the science industry around Cambridge will be affected by the loss of the EMA.)

However, the city of culture brings a direct tangible benefit to a non London area.Hence the disproportionate reaction to this apparently minor loss...

Sorry for so many posts.I'm a bit obsessed...

BUT is LH right? Is reality biting?

I think the trollbots have moved on. It's US midterms soon.

Where are all the leavers who usually have something to say about these things? No opinions? No thoughts on this?

I am still pondering why our ineligibility for the city of culture received more response than other larger things, like jeopardising our trade.

Probably because this is the first tangible outcome of the Brexit vote. To be closely followed by the various EU agencies upping sticks from London very shortly.

Has no-one heard of the Law of Unintended Consequences?

I honestly despair. I still have seen no one offer up tangible benefits to the country. Much needed people are leaving in droves, the Irish border question is up in the air, European agencies and banks are moving elsewhere and still no one gets it.

A lot of people do get it PortlyWino. The problem is that a lot of people who have been given absolutely fuck all in terms of opportunities for decades were lied to by Brexiteers and voted leave as a protest. I am not sure anything can now be done to reverse the decision.

Is there enough "people power" to force another referendum?

No, the leave voters I know want to forget about it, deny it, or say fatalistically, oh well, it's what the majority wanted.

I think it would require a massive/almost impossible psychological leap for them to engage in reversing it. Can't see it happening.