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Brexit

Westministenders: Before the Fire Alarm of Rome goes off

998 replies

RedToothBrush · 11/05/2017 22:22

I’m going to keep this one very simple.

THE DEADLINE TO REGISTER TO VOTE IS 22ND MAY.
www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

Postal votes start to go out on 23rd May.

Your challenge is to persuade someone to register to vote or to get someone who is considering not to, to get their arse to the polling station.

Go forth and harass. Especially women and the young.

That’s it. No frills OP.

OP posts:
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Mistigri · 12/05/2017 21:10

Ron yes - the complete cluelessness of the Tories on NI is frightening. I watched the NI select committee meetings on Brexit; depressing stuff. These are not for the most part people you would want in charge of a corner shop let alone a country.

Charmageddon · 12/05/2017 21:14

The nuclear deterrent & whether he'd 'press the button' or not is a daft thing to press him on tbh - we all know his views as an individual & we'll never know his decision should he be PM (unless he reveals it after the event).

I'm more interested in his response to whether he'd give the 'ok' to one of our fighter aircraft shooting down a passenger aircraft if it posed a threat (9/11 type scenario).
That's much more of a tangible, real thing than the conceptual nuclear question.
At least once a month aircraft are intercepted when they've lost comms - Tony Blair was on the brink of possibly giving the order at one time iirc.

His response to that question is a real measure of how serious he really is about a job that may require you to put the needs (and lives) of many against a few.

prettybird · 12/05/2017 21:15

Good to know that Scottish voters aren't "normal" Wink but we knew that already Grin

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2017 21:16

Trident is increasingly becoming an expensive luxury. Germany don't have it. They are doing ok.

We are dependant on the Americans for it. We might be more sovereign without it. We might be better if we were to share with France as we already share aircraft carriers and a geographical sea border given Trump. (Oh they don't speak the right language).

That said, I'm probably still pro-trident at this stage. But I'm not sure how long term and sustainable that position is.

As BigChoc says, it keeps our seat warm at the UN. Though I'd say the future of the UN is starting to look doubtful and that its in need of reform. It just needs something to prompt that particular course of events...

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 12/05/2017 21:24

One Election Forecast with Low and High predictions for seats.

Westministenders: Before the Fire Alarm of Rome goes off
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 12/05/2017 21:26

www.irishtimes.com/business/markets/record-6bn-pours-into-europe-stock-funds-after-macron-win-1.3081540
Record $6bn pours into Europe stock funds after Macron win
Solid euro zone economic data renew investor confidence at expense of US stock funds

UK back the wrong horse...

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borntobequiet · 12/05/2017 21:29

There is no evidence that possession of nuclear weapons is a deterrent. It's a supposition based on the fact that no one has yet used them. A bit like my auntie knowing that her devotion to Our Lady kept her family safe from harm. Made her feel better but that was the extent of it.

woman12345 · 12/05/2017 21:35

Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 8h8 hours ago
On British membership of the Eurovision Song Contest:
Remain: 44%
Leave: 56%

Peregrina · 12/05/2017 21:41

Trident is increasingly becoming an expensive luxury.
The only good thing I can thing about it, is that it brings good quality work to a deprived area. Wouldn't it be better though if we could build ships which we expected to be able to use fully?

It's a supposition based on the fact that no one has yet used them [nuclear weapons]. Used them again. Now that we have the knowledge gained from the two which were used.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2017 21:45

born Your auntie probably didn't spend 100 billion quid on candles to Our Lady
So her cost / benefit ratio was fine Smile

prettybird · 12/05/2017 21:49

I agree with BigChoc: the reason we want Trident is so that we can continue to justify our unjustified permanent seat on the Security Council Hmm it's just a giant phallic symbol It ties in with the UK's sense of entitlement in the whole Brexit process Sad

It's not just the opportunity cost of Trident; it's also because owning them makes us a target. It's easy at the moment because it's only the most densely populated part of Scotland that is at risk from a tactical strike Hmm. Devonport was deemed too dangerous as it is too close to a major centre of population Confused

borntobequiet · 12/05/2017 21:55

If all that dosh that went on devotional candles had gone into her pension pot she'd have been able to fund the care home...ah well

MrsSummerisle · 12/05/2017 21:56

the reason we want Trident is so that we can continue to justify our unjustified permanent seat on the Security Council hmm it's just a giant phallic symbol It ties in with the UK's sense of entitlement in the whole Brexit process

You could make the exact same criticisms of the French Force de frappe (UN Sec Council seat, phallic symbol, national pride), the codes to which Macron will be picking up on Sunday.

But we'll never hear those criticisms of France on here, will we?

prettybird · 12/05/2017 21:58

And as an aside, ds' discursive essay for his English Higher portfolio was entitled "How Effective is the UN?" in which he argued that it wasn't as effective as it could be and that it needed to be more assertive in promoting world peace (he has high hopes for the new UN Secretary General). He also thinks Germany should have a seat on the Security Council (he's a real fan of Merkel) but I don't know the detail of his arguments as he wouldn't let me read it before he submitted it

woman12345 · 12/05/2017 22:03

Police drop investigation into racist gang stabbing of refugee child and tell him 'don't go out alone at night'

Search for men who beat Eritrean boy in hate crime attack abandoned, in same week Britain First are accused of targeting asylum seekers in the area

Kent Police said officers arrived within 10 minutes, but that after carrying out a search they were not able to identify or locate the attackers

In an email seen by The Independent, Kent Police said: “It looks like due to a lack of descriptions and witnesses it will not be possible to investigate it further. Sad to say it is probably unwise to be out alone at that time of night

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-drop-investigation-into-refugee-child-stabbed-by-racist-gang-and-tell-him-dont-go-out-alone-a7732866.html

All terrorists are equal but some terrorists are more equal than others?

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2017 22:14

lordashcroftpolls.com/

Lord Ashcroft has first prediction up. The seat by seat is currently not working due to what looks like an over load.

So: what do the first results tell us? The Ashcroft Model currently estimates that the Tories are ahead in between 406 and 415 constituencies, depending on whether turnout matches that of the 2015 election, the 2016 referendum, or voters’ own declared likelihood to turn up on 8 June. This implies an overall Conservative majority of between 162 and 180 seats in the House of Commons – but don’t forget, we are talking about probabilities not predictions: within those figures, 39 seats are categorised as “too close to call” and a further 63 are only “leaning” towards rather than “likely” for one party.

In the 40,000-sample survey, just over six in ten (61%) of those intending to vote Conservative said they voted Leave in the referendum; around two thirds of Labour (64%) and SNP voters (68%) voted Remain, as did 82% of those planning to vote Lib Dem. Just under half (46%) of voters overall, but 63% of Conservatives, were enthusiastic about Brexit; one quarter said they had voted to remain in the EU but the result “must be honoured and we need to get on with it”, while 29% – but nearly two-thirds of Lib Dems – said they “would still like to prevent Brexit from happening if at all possible”. Our model suggests that Boston & Skegness is the most pro-Brexit constituency in the country, with 73% of its residents enthusiastic at the prospect; Hackney North & Stoke Newington is the most Brexit-resistant, with 54% likely to want to reverse the decision.

Three quarters of Tories said they thought Britain was on the right track, while seven in ten Labour voters and three quarters of Lib Dems and SNP supporters said the country was going in the wrong direction. Perhaps not surprisingly, 99% of Conservative voters said they thought Theresa May would make the best Prime Minister of the three main party leaders. One in five Labour voters, 36% of Lib Dems and nearly three in ten Scottish Nationalists said the same.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2017 22:43

MrsS The case for / against France's Force De Frappe is v similar to that of the Uk's Trident.

However, except for Misti (and maybe a couple of French lurkers), no one on these threads is paying for the French willy-wagging.
No one else is facing cuts in their public services, because of budgeting for the French deterrent.

Or is sitting in France near a great big target painted on their local nuke base

  • unlike the Scots, who as pretty has posted, were judged expendable, whereas the Devonport area was too precious Hmm

The one difference is that the French nuclear deterrent is at least under their control
The "UK" deterrent is only wth the permission / support / tolerance of the USA.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2017 22:51

woman That police response is dreadful:
"if you don't want to be a victim of crime, stay indoors at night"
The multipurpose response suitable for victims of racial assault or rape.

I expect there will be apologists claiming this wasn't a race hate crime:

"The 17-year-old was knocked unconscious and lost several teeth when he was beaten up in Ashford, Kent, by at least five men or boys who allegedly told him they “f @@@ing hate black people”.
The attack left him with serious scarring. "

TheElementsSong · 12/05/2017 23:00

"f @@@ing hate black people”

ISTR a poster of this parish who was praising our very own foreign secretary as showing laudable normality and personality for speaking of "picaninnies with watermelon smiles" so I'd imagine some people wouldn't even feel the need to apologise for this Hmm.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2017 23:09

(Times paywall) Cracks widen between chancellor and No 10

< trouble in Paradise ? >

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cracks-widen-between-chancellor-and-no-10-xlv7jdlbb

"Relations between the chancellor and Theresa May’s top team have deteriorated following a series of clashes over policy and presentation.

Philip Hammond infuriated senior Downing Street aides by effectively committing the prime minister to ditching a promise not to raise VAT, tax or national insurance days after she called the election and before the policy had been settled"

"Yesterday, both sides denied reports that Mr Hammond had initially opposed Mrs May’s promise to cap energy bills for 17 million households "

"However, the relationship between the chancellor and No 10 — in particular Nick Timothy, one of Mrs May’s chiefs of staff — is understood to have become increasingly strained.

The unravelling of the March budget over a broken promise not to raise national insurance triggered mutual recriminations between Downing Street and the Treasury.
Mr Timothy, 37, was said to be “incandescent” at briefings, blamed on Mr Hammond’s aides, that he was economically illiterate.

The chief of staff was already said to be angry that Mr Hammond, 61, had insisted on watering down an ambitious free-schools building project Hmm to ensure that the budget was fiscally neutral.

Previous rows about Mrs May’s plans for a government test on whether foreign takeovers were in the national interest, successfully resisted by the chancellor,
as well as his doubts over her demands to put workers on boards, caused early tensions"

"Anger flared again after the chancellor’s briefing to journalists in Washington last month, three days after Mrs May announced the snap election.

Mr Hammond appeared unilaterally to set a key economic policy by criticising David Cameron’s pledge not to raise the main rates of tax

“It’s self-evidently clear that the commitments that were made in the 2015 manifesto did, and do today, constrain the ability of the government to manage the economy flexibly,”

"The briefing incensed No 10, where it was suspected that Mr Hammond was seeking to tie Mr Timothy’s hands as he prepared the manifesto.

“There was a lot of swearing and angry phone calls,”

Mr Hammond later retreated, making clear that the policy had not been settled.

“All chancellors would prefer to have more flexibility in how they manage the economy and how they manage the overall tax burden down [rather] than having their hands constrained
But what we put in the manifesto will be decided in the next few days.”

"Hayden Allan, his long-term special adviser, quit two days after the internal row." Hmm

"There is some agreement.
Both Mr Timothy and the chancellor are said to have pressed Mrs May to scrap one of Mr Cameron’s other controversial promises, the pensions triple lock."

woman12345 · 12/05/2017 23:09

I just don't want this to be normalised. BigChocFrenzy. If they can go after other terrorists, why not Britain First, unless these thugs are the foot soldiers.

Comparing these times to the rise of Hitler (at the risk of invoking the wrath of our visitors), I liken Cox's assassination to Kristallnacht type event. Historians of the future will look at Farage in front of that poster and Cox's subsequent murder as the moment Britain changed. If the police are unable/unwilling to protect citizens from fascist thugs, what is this state?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2017 23:14

btw, WHY does the Times suddenly stick Hammond's age in the middle of a paragraph about free school financing ?
Age is totally irrelevant, but often shoehorned into the most inappropriate places

BigChocFrenzy · 12/05/2017 23:17

On other threads, some Brexiters were furious about Jo Cox's murder ..... because they claimed some Remainers and "lefties" were just NASTY and using it to discredit them

Even though they mentioned the murder more often than Remainers did, to complain about Remainers using it ..... Confused

prettybird · 12/05/2017 23:20

I notice that too about Hammond's age Hmm

HashiAsLarry · 12/05/2017 23:21

No, its completely ok to hate/hurt/berate someone for their looks now. And this isn't a hate crime at all Angry