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Brexit

Westminster: Brexit is the hard right's weapon of mass distraction

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2017 07:21

The fervour and divisions over Brexit have suspended normal party politics.

The staggering incompetence & unsuitability of Corbyn as a leader, together with the resulting impotence of Labour has removed the normal checks & balances in UK politics.
There is a vaccum where the Official Opposition should be, so Theresa May is under pressure only from her right.

I fear Thereas May and the Tory rightwing are taking advantage of Brexit to complete the destruction of the post-WW2 social contract and the welfare state.

Meanwhile, the constraints of civilised discourse have been loosened and those with racist or social Darwinist views now feel free to spout their poison openly.

Putin is pouring petrol on all the fires and Arron Banks is lurking < sinister emoticons required >

Zoe Williams:
"Behind a smokescreen of bogus patriotism, ideologically driven cuts to the NHS and all our public services are unpicking the bonds of nationhood"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/05/brexit-theresa-may-falklands-war-nhs-cuts

"We should be marching against the crisis in adult social care, the closure of care homes, the systematic exploitation of carers, the £4.6bn cut from social care budgets this decade.
We should be .... asking:

“What exactly is the plan, if we’ve decided we can no longer afford to care for the elderly and the disabled?
What do we do with them instead?”

"We should be marching against cuts in education funding"

"Every morning we wake up to someone on the radio explaining, despairingly, that you can’t fix the hospital bed crisis until social care is fixed, and you can’t fix that until council tax brings in more, and it can’t bring in more because wages are too low."

"But when everything breaks at the same time, that is not a coincidence: it is a plan.

As surely as Margaret Thatcher had an economic plan on employment, rights, industry and wages,
this century’s Conservatives have a plan on public services, which is to smash them beyond all recognition."

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Thread gallery
5
Badders123 · 08/03/2017 20:06

Whatever happens TM and leavers will blame the EU

woman12345 · 08/03/2017 20:07

I'm thicker lala, just think she's not in charge here at all. How would such a control freak preside over this shit storm.

but this too:
@IanDunt 57m57 minutes ago
Europhile Tories plot rebellion after Heseltine’s sacking h

Badders123 · 08/03/2017 20:07

Her track record at the HO is pretty chilling

woman12345 · 08/03/2017 20:19

@David_Cameron 28 Apr 2015
What our five year tax lock means for you.

@spectator 4h
Lots of Tories will be uncomfortable with this National Insurance hike, writes @JGForsyth

@FraserNelson 4h
Self-employed now make up 15pc of all workers. That's a lot of people who'll wonder why Tories broke 2015 manifesto pledge on no tax rises.

@paulwaugh 6h6 hours ago
Treasury getting monstered right now in post-Budget briefing over NIC general election promise being breached.

@MichaelLCrick Mar 4
Times says Downing St fears 2015 results in up to 6 seats cld be void if prosecutions follow #C4News expenses inquiry

Peregrina · 08/03/2017 20:23

I can't see any Tories bar Ken Clarke rebelling - it's all talk from them. Why are people getting upset now about broken manifesto pledges? They weren't bothered before when Theresa May talked about Hard Brexit and no longer pursuing the Single Market. What is the difference?

ElenaGreco123 · 08/03/2017 20:28

Some light relief from The Guardian about Lord Heseltine, the Tory Aslan

Listen, all I’m saying is that if you’re in a fight, you probably want the man who has to literally deny being a dog strangler in your corner.
www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2017/mar/08/michael-heseltine-tory-aslan-brexit-house-of-lords-theresa-may

Badders123 · 08/03/2017 20:30

Elena
😂

whatwouldrondo · 08/03/2017 20:44

woman Be careful, it is dangerous to emote beyond the credible. Yes there were some amazing Victorian Philanthropists who stood up for what they believed in, Port Sunlight, Saltaire, Foster, Wilberforce but in the main they were still motivated religion and by a paternalistic attitude to the poor and disadvantaged. The conditions that they addressed were what we are seeing today in third world countries as they develop, Sir Titus Salt for instance created his model village around Salt's Mill even as elsewhere in Bradford (Bowling) the average life expectancy was the worst ever seen in recorded UK History, 5 years, reflecting appalling levels of infant mortality in slums where sewage flowed in the streets. It was also the birth of the trade union movement who did just as much to address the issues as the isolated projects of Philanthropists, unless like Foster and Wilberforce they achieved real change. Plus Sanitary Inspectors, their contribution to history is hugely underrated.....

I have no idea what is going on in Tory minds, I think self interest residing in elevating myths around benefit scroungers, immigrants who are here to play the system / criminals etc. Easy if you are a Vicars daughter from The Home Counties, an entitled arse from Eton and a family with illusions of superiority or an another sort of arse who needs to deal with is internal insecurities by brownosing to the elite and broadcasting your illusions of superiority to elevate yourself. There is a wilful blindness to the reality of life in many parts of the country. They certainly lack emotional intelligence / empathy. I do agree the whole idea of the deserving poor is raising its head, hence Mays empty rhetoric elevating the JAMs aka the deserving poor. However these are not Victorian times, I should be careful about the parallels, because we have built a fairer society and however the Overton window moves it won't move back there, though in other parts of the world it is there. Right wing Americans would argue, with Farage nodding on, that in the UK people do not participate in responsible Philanthropism / charity towards the deserving poor because they are too inoculated by the welfare state. We need to assert the success of our welfare state for the majority....

prettybird · 08/03/2017 20:48

While we're talking about the Budget, taxation of the lowest paid, austerity and trickle down economics, here is an alternative approach that has proven successful - in the USA of all places Shock

Raising taxes on the rich and increasing minimum wage works. Who knew? Grin Shock doesn't fit with the alt right privatisation agenda Hmm

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6737786?

Caveat: haven't checked alternative sources of this story.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2017 20:57

For some time, I've been expecting Brexit to be without an EU deal (and scrambling to get WTO asap afterwards)

May has raised public expectations that she can't possible fulfill.
She's trapped herself into a corner - a completely unnecessary one.

Basically the only deal that she could present to voters as not being a climbdown - and for which the hard right, Murdoch, the Fail, Express wouldn't destroy her - is total capitualtion by the EU:

i.e. for the EU to let the UK keep all trading & services privileges without any of the obligations like FOM, ECJ, workers' rights, protection for ZHC, clamping down on tax evasion by oligarchs & multinationals ....

She cannot really budge and make significant concessions on any point
The other 27 countries would never agree
No trading bloc would - others may not have the FOM, but all have agreed regulations and an agreed court to settle disputes

She'll need scapegoats and as well as Remainers & the EU, I fear for "economically inactive" E27 expats, like carers, SAHPs, retired, disabled

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Eeeeeowwwfftz · 08/03/2017 20:57

Not sure if this was picked up in all the kerfuffle but I was excited to learn that the HoC International Trace Ctte has published its first report

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/international-trade-committee/publications/

Fra the summary:

We recommend that the Government now evaluate the implications of the UK’s rejoining the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), which would o er an opportunity for a smoother transition as the UK exits the EU in 2019. We were impressed by the potential benefits of EFTA membership, given there is close alignment between the UK’s economy and those of EFTA members, albeit the UK would be considerably the largest member were it to join. The prospect of UK membership of EFTA from 2019 onwards could clearly be to Britain’s advantage and we, therefore, recommend that the Secretary of State publish a White Paper on EFTA membership before summer 2017, so that negotiations can commence before the end of the year.

Peregrina · 08/03/2017 21:06

The others, and I assume Switzerland as an EFTA member, are not forced to agree. The most sensible thing would be to agree to the EEA, with perhaps a modest concession on FoM - but we would still have to pay, it doesn't meet May's racist agenda and therefore it ain't gonna happen.

woman12345 · 08/03/2017 21:07

You are quite right ron life involves fuller tummies and cleaner houses now, and that's a good thing! Although from what Badders said about actual hunger being experienced with children she works with, it may not be for long now.

'They certainly lack emotional intelligence / empathy' Which is my point.
Russians have a saying that men have forgotten their god, it's kind of like that now..

Being kind crosses most political spectrums, and patrician Victorian tories and philanthropists, may have something to teach the Ian Duncan Smiths of today.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2017 21:09

I've heard the 4-day school week floated before.
Seriously ?
Why isn't there a national outcry at the slightest hint of this possibility ?
To close it down immediately and permanently.
I can only think Brexit has stopped people thinking seriously about anything else.

Losing 1 day a week of school can't be made up.
All those kids will have their education wrecked, which affects their future, maybe even 40-50 years of working life.
Imagine the sanctions there would have been on parents who decided to keep their DC home an extra day each week

Many parents couldn't organise childcare for an extra day per week
Many would lose their jobs and struggle to keep their homes
I know school isn't suppised to be childcare, but parents plan their jobs and finances assuming a regular 5-day school week and many jobs can't adapt working hrs sufficiently.

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mybrainhurtsalot · 08/03/2017 21:10

Very interesting article Pretty. It reminded me of this one:

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2017 21:17

I've wanted EEA / EFTA Brexit ever since it was clear the referendum result must be accepted

BUT the problem is that the other EFTA members are most unlikely to agree to a special deal.
The Uk will have to accept what the other members do: contributions to the EU without a vote, ECJ, FOM with no more than the concessions than Cameron got

I don't think May is prepared to climb down for that - and it would be a massive climbdown

For her and her party, careerism & winning GEs would trump the national interest - or more precisely they think it is in the national interest to have a Brexit for the wealthy, paid for by slashing the nhs & welfare state that they have always secretly hated.

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PattyPenguin · 08/03/2017 21:24

Re. increase in NI for the self-employed... The government will have taken notice of this
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39028310

"The rapid growth of self-employment in the UK has been driven more by people in higher-paid than low-paid work, according to a new report.
The analysis comes from the Resolution Foundation, an economic think tank.
It says the "privileged" self-employed, with good educational qualifications and higher earnings, made up 57% of the growth in self-employment after 2009.
Among them were people working in law, accountancy, health services and management consultancy.
The think tank says they typically earned much more than the average worker, at between £45,000 and £65,000 a year."

They need to tax someone to pay for the Brexit mess. Not sure they want to tax businesses. I wonder who'll be next.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2017 21:26

In Europe, it is the high tax countries that have high wages too and excellent public services
e.g. Scandinavia
It's what I find in Germany too - the extra tax gives us all a better quality of life.
Germany is very oriented towards manufacturing too, so they haven't been tempted in a race to the bottom wrt tax

When businesses can make profit, they stay and invest.
Better to pay fair tax on a good profit rather than zero tax on v low profit
When there don't have the required infrastructure, transport, educated workers etc then companies don't prosper.

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2017 21:29

I womder if that 45-65k self-employed is spread around the country
That level means prosperity in Northumberland but not so much in London

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2017 21:31

Also, self employed people generally need to earn 60% more than employed in the same field, to cope with sickness, periods without contracts, insurance, equipment and other business expenses.

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NinonDeLanclos · 08/03/2017 21:33

Self-employed now make up 15pc of all workers. That's a lot of people who'll wonder why Tories broke 2015 manifesto pledge on no tax rises

I do like to see FraserNelson piqued - whom I utterly despise. First he was annoyed that May didn't immediately post-Brexit guarantee the rights of EU citizens as, it turns out, his FIL is an immigrant and may have to move in with him.

Now he's whining because he's self-employed. Manifesto promises on Remain and the single market can go fish.

PattyPenguin · 08/03/2017 21:38

I doubt whether the government cares about self-employed people's costs. They're just worried about the vast hole in the tax take, estimated by the OBR to reach £3.5bn in 2021-22.

Peregrina · 08/03/2017 21:41

At least people have woken up to the fact that National Insurance is a tax in virtually all but name. I know there is a vague idea that it pays for the NHS.

Peregrina · 08/03/2017 21:42

I see it's Class 4 NIC - which is most definitely a tax.

PattyPenguin · 08/03/2017 22:18

Who's going to be first to say "I informed you thusly"?

uk.businessinsider.com/study-brexit-vote-economic-impact-article-50-2017-3
"Brexit voting areas are going to be worst hit by the economic fallout"