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Brexit

Westminster: Brexit is the hard right's weapon of mass distraction

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2017 07:21

The fervour and divisions over Brexit have suspended normal party politics.

The staggering incompetence & unsuitability of Corbyn as a leader, together with the resulting impotence of Labour has removed the normal checks & balances in UK politics.
There is a vaccum where the Official Opposition should be, so Theresa May is under pressure only from her right.

I fear Thereas May and the Tory rightwing are taking advantage of Brexit to complete the destruction of the post-WW2 social contract and the welfare state.

Meanwhile, the constraints of civilised discourse have been loosened and those with racist or social Darwinist views now feel free to spout their poison openly.

Putin is pouring petrol on all the fires and Arron Banks is lurking < sinister emoticons required >

Zoe Williams:
"Behind a smokescreen of bogus patriotism, ideologically driven cuts to the NHS and all our public services are unpicking the bonds of nationhood"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/05/brexit-theresa-may-falklands-war-nhs-cuts

"We should be marching against the crisis in adult social care, the closure of care homes, the systematic exploitation of carers, the £4.6bn cut from social care budgets this decade.
We should be .... asking:

“What exactly is the plan, if we’ve decided we can no longer afford to care for the elderly and the disabled?
What do we do with them instead?”

"We should be marching against cuts in education funding"

"Every morning we wake up to someone on the radio explaining, despairingly, that you can’t fix the hospital bed crisis until social care is fixed, and you can’t fix that until council tax brings in more, and it can’t bring in more because wages are too low."

"But when everything breaks at the same time, that is not a coincidence: it is a plan.

As surely as Margaret Thatcher had an economic plan on employment, rights, industry and wages,
this century’s Conservatives have a plan on public services, which is to smash them beyond all recognition."

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Badders123 · 07/03/2017 19:02

Gosh wrong
I'm a VERY lapsed catholic!
I'm not the right person to advise.....

whatwouldrondo · 07/03/2017 19:05

In recent years I have seen some very able people appointed to the House of Lords, people who are rightly respected for their skills and experience as well as the usual grace and favour mob of entitled idiots. I think that showed in the quality of the speeches, and indeed the principled stand many have taken. In theory I don't agree with an unelected House (or Monarchy come to that ). However we need these constitutional checks and balances and as with the Queen, why fix it if it isn't broken, which is why the last vote went the way it did. Any replacement would have to show it was capable of providing the same level of scrutiny and application of sense and real life experience. We don't see much of that in the professional political elite in the House of Commons and I can't see any way of fixing that at the moment....

WrongTrouser · 07/03/2017 19:05
Grin
HashiAsLarry · 07/03/2017 19:05

I love a bit of Chukka I do. Wish he was in my inbox Grin

lalalonglegs · 07/03/2017 19:06

Rather less thrillingly, I've just found Anna Soubry in mine Confused...

HashiAsLarry · 07/03/2017 19:07

Oh, is that where she's been hiding?

whatwouldrondo · 07/03/2017 19:07

Yes Anna has joined us as well....

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2017 19:10

We need a 2nd chamber as part of the balances & checks in a democracy.
A Uk PM - with an HoC majority - has far fewer checks on their power than say a US President
That's not safe and could become oppressive, if a future hard right or hard left govt is elected during a temporary wave of populism.

We could make it an elected chamber and give it more teeth.

However, my personal preference is to turn the UK into a federal state and have a 2nd chamber representing the 4 UK countries equally, say 25 each, elected by the same PR system Scotland had
The US senate has 2 senators per state, deliberately regardless of population, so the hugely populous states can't dominate the rest

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Badders123 · 07/03/2017 19:11

Anna soubry is a local mp to me

She gets right on my wick

^ local saying to mean "she is very irritating"

I'm watching re runs of the west wing and crying quietly 😢

lalalonglegs · 07/03/2017 19:12

I have very little problem with the HoL now that it is only ~12% hereditaries. Ideally I'd like to see a greater mix of the sexes and more diverse backgrounds but I really appreciate the fact that the peers don't have to act as if they are part of a popularity contest, they are appointed for life and don't have to worry about being unseated because they do something to upset a newspaper baron their constituents.

Less than 20 years ago Viscount St David would have had a seat in the Lords Shock.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2017 19:15

I also can't justify the Monarchy in debate other than to say pragmatically that it works.
< and I do like & respect the Queen a lot >

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HashiAsLarry · 07/03/2017 19:17

My preference for a second chamber would be that it was politically neutral. Not entirely sure how that would work in practice though.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2017 19:19

badders You've inspired me to buy the West Wing DVD boxset < rummages through Amazon >
I missed much of the first series, but thoroughly enjoyed the next 2 or 3.
We can't expect the US to produce Jed Bartlett, but Trump ...! < wails >

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Badders123 · 07/03/2017 19:24

My love of Rob Lowe the west wing know no bounds bigchoc

My youngest ds is named for one of the main characters 😋

ElenaGreco123 · 07/03/2017 19:26

Badders There, there. [hands over tissue]

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2017 19:27

Currently about 800 lords ! The largest unelected chamber in the world, iirc.
Any elected chamber would inevitably be political, so non-political requires selecting experts & representatives from various fields

Ideally we want to trim out the political hacks appointed by PMs at various times to flood the chamber, but keep the useful retired ones.

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Thegruffalowswife · 07/03/2017 19:27

Bigchoc that is not such a terrible idea. Not quite sure where I stand on it without more thought, but sounds entirely plausible.

Thegruffalowswife · 07/03/2017 19:28

Re federal and equal rep in 2nd elected chamber.

Badders123 · 07/03/2017 19:29

Thank you Elena
Now rob/sam is being all tortured due to an oil leak

YerErseIsOotTheWindy · 07/03/2017 19:34

Wrong trouser I agree with most of what you have said on this thread.

Peregrina · 07/03/2017 19:38

So anyone who got up on a platform - either speaking or just sitting there in silent support - with known Kippers, BNP, Front National etc or praises them.

What a pity that others don't refuse to go on Question Time or the Andrew Marr show on Sunday mornings. It would kill the BBC's love in with UKIP stone dead. And no, it wouldn't be being unbalanced - do we have a Green spokesperson on these shows every week?

Anna Soubry turned up in my emails too. I have done as requested and sent another letter to my useless MP Nicola Blackwood. I have had two 'replies' from NB in the last 4 days - the second one being a word for word copy of the first, despite my emailing about different issues. I have little faith in her doing anything other than voting with the party whip.

RedAndYellowPeppers · 07/03/2017 19:38

NEWS

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39200658
THe Lords have voted an amendment to have a meaningful vote on the Brexit deal (both the MP and the HoL)...

RedAndYellowPeppers · 07/03/2017 19:40

I like the HoL becaus ethey feel like the voice of reason when the governemnet is going too far in one direction.
Not just now but before too (e.g. They stop the governemnet going too far in reducing benefits ).
They are a force that is really needed to balance the government I think, esp as the MPs tend to just vote for whatever their leader has said they should vote....

Thegruffalowswife · 07/03/2017 19:41

I have considered writing to my MP with my views on the situation, but I doubt it will go far.

Peregrina · 07/03/2017 19:42

But once the Lords decision goes back to the HoC both Tories and Labour will be whipped to vote the 'correct' way. Any rebellions will putter out, of that I am sure.